Expanded Toolbar - Grog

[RebBugler]

Hi Reb,

still doing tests for the Formation button problem. I have stripped out all MoDs other than Grog, but I'm still experiencing issues so I just wanted to check something with you before I continuing testing. I am doing a combination of sandbox and stock scenarios, and trying all of the OOB options, the various command levels and also different orders stance to see if I can get a consistent set of conditions that trigger the problem.

My questions are:
1. which of these two start states would you normally expect to see, A or B?
2. which commanders would you normally expect condition A to apply to?

Thanks,

Pop1

You're a great help, couldn't ask for more.

Regarding the questions...
1) B Because most formations should be recognized by the Drills.csv file included with this mod
2) As I mentioned before, sandbox sometimes uses formations that are not recognized, producing the generic formation button. Also other mods can bring in unrecognized formations. The generic button is a failsafe, once clicked and a formation selected it updates the unit to the correct formation protocol, within the Grog Toolbar's 'recognized formations' sphere.

Much Appreciated!

[Pop1]

Reb,

thanks for the clarification. I'll get back to you with results as soon as I can.

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[Pop1]

Hi Reb,

As you know I have been looking into the issue I have with the formation command button being inactive at certain times.

The first point to make is that is that no other MODs were active during the tests, in fact I removed them completely from the MOD folder. Only the Grog Extended Toolbar was present and active.

I have managed to find some condition which I can replicate every time I play the scenario, so I hope you can replicate these conditions as well. I have stuck to default scenarios because you will have easy access the these, although I have experienced the issue playing sandbox scenarios.

So far I have not see the issue affect artillery commanders or cavalry formations. I have done limited testing in the sandbox area with cavalry and have not yet had an issue.

You will remember from previous posts we called the generic formation button 'Condition A' and the currently adopted formation button 'Condition B'; I have used these terms to describe what happens in the scenarios.

There are three scenarios you can look at, one from the initial game and one from each DLC:

WL02, LG01 and QB01.

WL02 - King of Westphalia.
Jerome's Division with Bdes Soye and Baudin, arty bty Meuiner, all of which start the scenario with condition A except the artillery which has condition B. All of the buttons are 'active', i.e. you can mouse over them, they turn yellow and you can select a formation.

Baudin, killed off at the very start of the scenario, is replaced by another commander. If you select this commander and give it a movement order, either directly on the screen or via the command map, then condition A button appears and is not active. The instruction can be with or without an accompanying formation order, it does not seem to make any difference.

LG01 - Ziethen's Corps at St Amand.
Ziethen (-), Div Jagow, Bdes (Regiments) Hymmen, Friccius and von Rudorff. All start the scenario in condition B with TC on.

If you TC off Hymmen then the formation button changes to condition A, which is inactive. This does not happen with the other commanders.

I have tried various order and stance options for Hymmen, and was initially confused as to what caused the issue as I was using couriers and there was a delay getting the instructions to the commander. When I decided to switch couriers off it quickly became apparent that it was the TC off (clicking the yellow flag button at the top left of the toolbar) which initiated the problem.


QB01 - The Namur Road.
Bachelu's Division at Quatre Bras. Bachelu, Bdes Husson and Campi, arty bty DeHaulles.
Bachelu and the artillery start in condition B. Both Bdes start in condition A, which are active.

Order Campi forward, pick any formation it does not seen to matter. Once he becomes engaged his orders automatically change to attack, I think this has something to do with the battlescript? Give Campi another move / formation order and the formation button goes to condition A, which is inactive.

The only common thing I have found about these three commander is that they are mentioned in the battlescript file for the respective scenarios, but I don't really understand exactly what all of the entries mean. The battlescript would not, however, have an effect on sandbox games, and I have experienced the issue there. You mentioned in your previous post about the drills file, I have your latest version allow columns to engage, but the issue with the formation button pre-dates this.

I hope you can replicate the problem from the info I have given you and, I hope, provide a solution. I really like your toolbars, I use the GB one as well, and it after buying this game the first thing I did was download the toolbar. Sorry for the lengthy post.

Pop 1

[RebBugler]

Pop 1

I found the bug with your 'QB01 - The Namur Road' example, the DEAD formations button appeared as you explained. I'm almost sure what causes it, but the fix may take a while. I never experienced it before because I always TC brigade officers going into battle, and as far as I can tell, this bug only occurs initially with unTC'd officers close to the enemy when they start ordering their battalions around (when they're in AI mode). I could live with the bug as is because unTC'd officers in the face of the enemy can't be controlled anyway, they're not going to accept a formation even if the button worked. However, I found the bug to be worse because when I TC'd the officer back to gain control, the formations button still stayed DEAD, even with a context menu formation selected. This MUST be fixed!

Thanks again and again! Hopefully I'll have a fix available for you and other folks to test in the near future. In the meantime, learn to fight with TC'd brigade officers. BTW, I did find a way to wake up the DEAD button, select one of the red, Hot Button formations.

[Pop1]

Reb,

glad you were able to replicate the issue and that you think you can fix it, thanks for taking the time to do this.

I'm beginning to think TC on for engaged officers is the way to play, I find them a bit suicidal when left to their own devices, at times just advancing on their own into enemy formations!

Anyway, I looked for the way to wake up the DEAD button as you suggested 0 using one one of the red Hot Button formations. I could not see any more options on the toolbar, is that a keyboard command?

[RebBugler]

I'm beginning to think TC on for engaged officers is the way to play, I find them a bit suicidal when left to their own devices, at times just advancing on their own into enemy formations!

Anyway, I looked for the way to wake up the DEAD button as you suggested 0 using one one of the red Hot Button formations. I could not see any more options on the toolbar, is that a keyboard command?

Depending on the situation, I TC off once most of a brigade's battalions are engaged. Then the brigade generally won't lose it's line and the officer is free to support stressed units. And, regarding your next question, to disengage I use the Hot Button (attackmarch,columns,run) on the destination context menu. It works better than retreat because you have control. As soon as all units are out of harms way hit another formation to slow them down and direct them. So, again you see why I never saw that DEAD button, I never use the formations buttons with TC off engagement situations. I just TC on to establish engagements, and a Hot Button to get out of them.

[RebBugler]

Pop 1

I found the bug with your 'QB01 - The Namur Road' example, the DEAD formations button appeared as you explained. I'm almost sure what causes it, but the fix may take a while.

Found the error and fixed it by at least testing the above example. I had inadvertently left out the brigade infantry call for the line formation, so hopefully this is the same error you saw in the other examples. Here's the fixed version to test, if it passes testing it will be posted as update 5.4. Thanks!

Link updated to first post as update 5.4

[Pop1]

Hi Reb,

I will test the the update during the week and get back to you with the results.

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[Pop1]

Reb,

I have tested on the three scenarios and also a couple of sandbox games and did not get the fault, so it looks lite it's fixed - thank you.

I have been playing various options with TC'ed officers as you suggested, had to modify my style of play as it does not work very well with couriers. I expect you play without couriers? That may explain why I have no luck with your Chickamauga scenarios, I must try these again now without couriers.

Another question on the toolbar if I may. What is the split brigade function for and how is it best used? I cannot find an explanation of it anywhere in your posts, and my attempts with it so far just seem to spawn additional commanders for the brigade which take over command of all existing units leaving the original brigade commander with no units. The join brigade button just removes one of the commanders. If you could give a few tips on how best to use these functions that would be helpful.

Thanks again for fixing the bug.

Pop1

[RebBugler]

Thank you ever so much for reporting and helping me find and fix that DEAD formations button bug!

Regarding the split brigade question, here's my report submitted for patch 1. It was not considered as a top ten concern, so wasn't addressed.

The command splitbrig:1 doesn't work
Description: When working correctly the brigade is split in half with half of the battalions assigned to a spawned officer.

Presently only the officer is spawned. This would be acceptable because the 'guard' command, which works now, could be used by assigning battalions to guard the newly spawned officer. However, the spawned officer sometimes inherits the brigade, leaving the original brigade officer with no troops. The spawned officer anomaly is random and I can't determine the cause. The spawned officer is always a poor commander rated at a 1 or 2 experience level and should never be the brigade commander.