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New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

2 years 10 months ago #31 by DarkRob

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  • Thanks jackass that was helpful. The first post is not helpful, that is why I posted my message. I click on the link and it takes me to some weird website, and I was unable to find any sort of download information.


    That weird website is the Kriegsspiel forum where the KS mod files are located. However, the link in the first post just links you to the forum itself.
    The actual page you want is here:
    kriegsspiel.forumotion.net/t1451-set-up-for-sowwl-napoleon-games-for-kriegspiel-style

    You want to download the files for the KS sprite mod 1.06, the KS Napoleon mod 1.275 and the KS supplemental maps 1.18(Be aware that you have to register on the KS forum in order to download the files)

    Download and extract to your desktop and then move them into your mods folder. Launch the game and go into "modifications" and activate all three mods(disable other mods, like the grog toolbar for example that the KS mod isn't compatible with) You now have the KS mod.

    For what its worth, calling people names isn't likely to earn you many friends here. He was trying to help you. He probably didn't realize the degree of hand holding you required, as it doesn't take much searching to find the correct page from the link in the first post. You might want to check yourself before coming at people sideways again here.
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    2 years 10 months ago #32 by Hook

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  • ...it doesn't take much searching to find the correct page from the link in the first post.


    I still haven't found the correct page from the main page and I've tried several times. If I didn't have a direct link I wouldn't be able to get to it.

    Most sites will have this kind of information on the first page so a new visitor can find it quickly.

    Hook

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    2 years 10 months ago - 2 years 10 months ago #33 by Davinci

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  • I still haven't found the correct page from the main page and I've tried several times. If I didn't have a direct link I wouldn't be able to get to it.

    kriegsspiel.forumotion.net/t1451-set-up-for-sowwl-napoleon-games-for-kriegspiel-style

    You want to download the files for the KS sprite mod 1.06, the KS Napoleon mod 1.275 and the KS supplemental maps 1.18(Be aware that you have to register on the KS forum in order to download the files)


    Did You try the Link in the above post?

    davinci

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    Last edit: 2 years 10 months ago by Davinci.

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    2 years 10 months ago #34 by Hook

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  • Of course I tried the link Rob posted. Read this again:

    "I still haven't found the correct page from the main page..."

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    2 years 10 months ago #35 by DarkRob

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  • Of course I tried the link Rob posted. Read this again:

    "I still haven't found the correct page from the main page..."


    That's very surprising Hook, given that your computer abilities are way way above mine. I found it from the main page in about 10 seconds.

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    2 years 10 months ago #36 by Hook

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  • Rob: What can I say? I'm old. :)

    Davinci: I assume the email I got was from you. It had the same link Rob posted. But thanks anyway. I've been to that thread a few times now.

    In case I wasn't clear, I've visited the main page at least 4 times looking for the link to the KS mod download. The last time was to check on why chops may have had a problem. It is not obvious from what is on that page where you need to look.

    If I'd been directed to the necessary thread on my first visit to the site, I would have downloaded the mod at that time. But there was only a certain amount of effort I was willing to put into searching an unfamiliar forum to find it. Since then I've learned that the mod may not be to my tastes, so I haven't downloaded it. I may at some point in the future.

    I couldn't find it. Chops couldn't find it. I didn't say anything, chops did. I doubt we're the only two people who have ever gone to the main page and couldn't find the link, especially when we're directed to the main page, not the page we need.

    For everyone: Keep in mind that it's easy to find something when you already know where it is. First time visitors won't know where to look.

    Hook

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    2 years 10 months ago - 2 years 10 months ago #37 by voltigeur

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  • egads. Seriously?

    Shirley you jest.

    Scourge of War multiplayer group
    steamcommunity.com/groups/sowwaterloo
    Last edit: 2 years 10 months ago by voltigeur.

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    2 years 10 months ago #38 by xray

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  • Hi Hook

    If you received the email shortly after 0900 GMT it was from yours truly.
    Just had time for a quick send, forgot to sign it!

    Peter

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    2 years 10 months ago #39 by Hook

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  • Ah, thanks Peter. :)

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    2 years 10 months ago #40 by con20or

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  • Hook has his link - keep replies clean please I've already deleted one or if not we'll have to lock it.

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    2 years 7 months ago #41 by MikeCK

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  • Ok, I’ve owned SoW Waterloo since the day it was out along with each DLC. I have never tried the KS mod but downloaded it and put it in the mod folder today. I activated the 3 parts and turned off all other mods; however, when I selected a user scenarios (ney’s Corps at QB) I see a toolbar that looks like the vanilla game. Can’t order much with it. So...i activated the “Grog ToolBar V” and noticed some new cavalry commands (like screen or raid)...at least, I’ve never seen them before

    Problem is, I’ve read that the KS mod isn’t compatible with the Grog Tool bar and will crash. Since mine ran, I’m wondering if my KS mod is installed properly. Does the KS mod use the old vanilla toolbar? Have things changed and now the Grog bar IS compatible? I can’t imagjne doing anything with the vanilla toolbar other than ordering a unit from here to there in one of 3 formatIons

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    2 years 7 months ago #42 by DarkRob

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  • Ok, I’ve owned SoW Waterloo since the day it was out along with each DLC. I have never tried the KS mod but downloaded it and put it in the mod folder today. I activated the 3 parts and turned off all other mods; however, when I selected a user scenarios (ney’s Corps at QB) I see a toolbar that looks like the vanilla game. Can’t order much with it. So...i activated the “Grog ToolBar V” and noticed some new cavalry commands (like screen or raid)...at least, I’ve never seen them before

    Problem is, I’ve read that the KS mod isn’t compatible with the Grog Tool bar and will crash. Since mine ran, I’m wondering if my KS mod is installed properly. Does the KS mod use the old vanilla toolbar? Have things changed and now the Grog bar IS compatible? I can’t imagjne doing anything with the vanilla toolbar other than ordering a unit from here to there in one of 3 formatIons


    The KS mod is not compatible with the grog toolbar. I didn't know it was even possible to use the grog toolbar while the KS mod was active since the KS mod has it's own toolbar. At any rate even if you have managed to load a KS game and the grog toolbar at the same time, it's almost certain to make the game crash at some point, even if it doesn't happen right away.

    The KS toolbar and the vanilla stock toolbar are very different and it's hard to believe you could confuse the two, even just from the layout and the way they look they are completely different. So if you're activating the 3 parts of the KS mod but still getting the vanilla toolbar then something is wrong. The KS mods toolbar is vastly better than the stock toolbar, and comparable to the grog toolbar(though they to are very different)

    The new cavalry commands in the grog toolbar are from more recent updates to the grog toolbar stemming from the release of patch 1.03

    I also wouldn't recommend using the KS mod with the games stock scenarios. The KS mod makes so many drastic changes to the way infantry, artillery and cavalry work in the game that it unbalances many of the stock scenarios making some of them super easy to win and others impossible to win. The stock scenarios were written and balanced for the stock game. The KS mod comes with it's own scenarios and you can write your own using the KS scenario generator.

    I'm not sure why you are getting the vanilla toolbar and not the KS toolbar. I suggest redownloading the files and trying again. The KS toolbar should appear somewhat transparent against the backround. And also when your place your movement arrows on the ground they should appear more orange/yellow rather than the green arrow of the stock game.
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    2 years 7 months ago #43 by DarkRob

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  • Also Mike, if you haven't already, I highly recommend reading the KS mod players manual. It's very well written and serves as a good introduction to the KS mod, what it is, what it does, and how it works. The KS mod is very different from the stock game, and while knowing the stock game well can help you pick up the KS mod quicker, they are still very different so don't expect to immediately understand everything.

    Here is a link to the webpage with the players manual link:
    kriegsspiel.forumotion.net/t2032-ks-napoleon-mod-player-s-manual
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    2 years 7 months ago #44 by MikeCK

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  • Thank you all. I had read just about all I could. The problem was that I used the 7-zip extractor which placed the three folders in my download folder. I placed those folders in the Mod folder and it didn’t work. Turns out, if I opened the Sprites folder -for instance- there was another “sprites folder inside. Sort of a folder in a folder. Was like that for all three. When I put those “subfolders” in the MOD folder, worked perfectly.

    So that’s why I was having problems. KS was not installed and activated.

    Can’t WAIT to dig into this!
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    2 years 7 months ago #45 by DarkRob

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  • Thank you all. I had read just about all I could. The problem was that I used the 7-zip extractor which placed the three folders in my download folder. I placed those folders in the Mod folder and it didn’t work. Turns out, if I opened the Sprites folder -for instance- there was another “sprites folder inside. Sort of a folder in a folder. Was like that for all three. When I put those “subfolders” in the MOD folder, worked perfectly.

    So that’s why I was having problems. KS was not installed and activated.

    Can’t WAIT to dig into this!


    Ahh the ole folder in folder trick. That one gets a lot of people the first time. Don't feel bad. We've all done it.

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    2 years 6 months ago #46 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • A new version of the KS SOWWL mod has been uploaded. It is version 1.28. Also a new version of the KS Sprites Mod, (version 1.07), is also available. You can find the link to the KS Forum in the first post of this thread.

    More improvements to the AI have been made. These include:
    1. The ability of artillery to run to a nearby square if cavalry approach too close.
    2. An infantry battalion will automatically be assigned from a nearby brigade to guard a battery once it is unlimbered and begins firing.
    3. Improvements to the AI in both its tactical and strategic assessments. You'll see the latter especially in Hunt Them Down scenarios.
    4. A zoom button, ('Z'), has been added to the toolbar. It will bring up a telescope view of the battlefield. This was requested by DarkRob in one of his videos. The keyboard 'Z' key will still zoom in on the battlefield as it always has.
    5. 21 new scenarios have been added. These are all quite difficult if played from the recommended side.
    6. A new OOB has been included for battles in the 1800 German theater between Austria and France. Several new sprites for it have been created by Remus. The KS Sprites Mod., (version 1.07), contains them.
    7. The manual has been updated so reading it again will be useful.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
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    2 years 4 months ago #47 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • The latest version of the KS mod, version 1.29 has been released. The Supplemental Maps, version 1.19, has also been updated. The link to the KS forum is in the first post of this thread.

    Along with the usual AI improvements, the changes include:
    1. Scripting for MP games has been implemented. This will allow a scenario maker to create more intelligent P vs AI battles, or allow larger battles where one or more AI divisions can be scripted. A new manual with instructions is included in the manual folder of the mod.
    2. New messages have been added to single player games. As a corps commander, any scouting reports will now be sent to the player. Of course a player/division commander will still receive the report.
    3. SP players/corps commanders will now receive a report detailing when a division first becomes engaged. It will send an estimate of the enemy's strength. Periodically, the player will receive updates, with an estimate of the percentage casualties the division has suffered. This can be helpful to players in HITS mode as the fighting is usually over an area that cannot be viewed from one location.
    4. Crikey's Italian maps have now been included. These are very nice and give a good feel for fighting in northern Italy.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
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    2 years 4 months ago #48 by RebBugler

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  • Scripting for MP games has been implemented


    This was always near the top of my 'improvements' list, great to hear that you've found a pathway towards that feature. Sure wish my dense old brain could adapt the Grog Toolbar as an option for this mod as per our last discussion, however, I'm just getting denser.

    All the best for the KS group, it's probably the number one happening that's keeping this game on a progressive path.

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    2 years 4 months ago #49 by Davinci

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  • 3. SP players/corps commanders will now receive a report detailing when a division first becomes engaged. It will send an estimate of the enemy's strength. Periodically, the player will receive updates, with an estimate of the percentage casualties the division has suffered. This can be helpful to players in HITS mode as the fighting is usually over an area that cannot be viewed from one location.

    This is the One Feature that I wish the previous game would have included!

    "MTG" - in your opinion can the SOWWL game be converted over to the Civil War?

    davinci

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    2 years 4 months ago #50 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • "MTG" - in your opinion can the SOWWL game be converted over to the Civil War?


    I assume you mean without having to write new code for the AI. The answer is that for the most part, yes. The stock SOWWL AI is mostly the SOWGB AI. Changes that were made were mostly in the areas of cavalry, skirmishers and fortresses.

    Since cavalry played only a peripheral role in the ACW, they can easily be left out of any scenario. In fact the stock SOWGB Buford scenario would have played much better if the Union cavalry had been replaced by infantry sprites. By the way, the dismounted cavalry logic was removed from SOWWL, so at best you could only have pure cavalry, not the 18th century throwback.

    Skirmishers are a problem because the AI uses them in combat, whereas the armies of the ACW didn't very much. The simplest solution would be to remove the code from the AI, a fairly straightforward task, I think, but one that requires coding ability. Otherwise the next best solution would be to change the skirmish formations listed in unitglobal.csv to a line formation. The AI would still spawn small skirmish units, but these would at least be in line formation.

    Fortresses are not an issue, since except for the SOWWL maps none of the available ACW maps have them, (KS Mod excepted, of course).

    Other than the skirmish issue, one thing you'd be giving up in switching to the new game is giving up a better LOS algorithm. The SOWGB LOS function is significantly better that of SOWWL. I'm pretty sure NSD used an older version of their LOS function when they ported the old game over. The KS mod has corrected part of that, but cannot completely fix it without the source code.

    Another area worth mentioning is a bug in the SOWWL graphics rendering of the battlefield. If you simply port over the SOWGB maps, you'll find that units appear to sink into the ground or disappear entirely for a brief moment. This is caused by the vegetation graphics, (trees, bushes, etc.) being on packed sheets. To fix the problem, we had to place each and every graphic on a separate sheet.

    The last significant issue would be porting the sprites over. The csv files controlling the sprites are a bit different in the new game. However, I doubt someone like yourself would find it to be much more than a tedious conversion exercise. Use the KS files as a template.

    Sure wish my dense old brain could adapt the Grog Toolbar as an option for this mod as per our last discussion, however, I'm just getting denser.


    Mostly, it is just adapting the toolbar to the KS unitglobal formations. It is far more comprehensive. There is one tricky area that has to do with the scouting button, (only certain types of cavalry can do that), but even that is pretty simple if you use the KS toolbar setup as a guide. I'm happy to offer guidance.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
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    2 years 4 months ago #51 by Davinci

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  • I assume you mean without having to write new code for the AI. The answer is that for the most part, yes.

    Correct, I don't have any C++ Programming knowledge.

    Thanks "MTG" - I have been meaning to buy the Game just to see if it can be converted over!

    After reading this, it is possible, so I might as well give it a shot!

    davinci

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    2 years 4 months ago #52 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • Before investing the time and effort into porting the ACW to this game, you need to ask yourself what will be better. If you intend to just use the stock AI then you really don't gain very much. The troop movements are somewhat better, less collisions. But as I said previously, you'll be giving up a better LOS. You'll also be giving up quite a bit of game speed. SOWWL runs much slower than SOWGB due to its improper use of multi-core programming. You can get around that somewhat by playing the game in MP mode where only one CPU core is used, but it will still be slower than SOWGB. In playing that way, there is also the disadvantage of not being able to fast forward whenever you like as in pure SP mode.

    The real advantage of the new game is the capability of tailoring the AI specifically to the time period you want to represent. Personally, I would never go back to the old game. This new one has much more possibility. You could utilize the KS AI which is much better than the stock version and gain the benefits of that. However, it is designed for a much more complex battlespace than ACW. By getting rid of assault column formations, along with skirmish formations, you may be able to have a pretty good ACW simulator. That's just a guess, of course. I'm sure there will be a lot of little details that would have to be addressed.

    Should you use the KS mod, you'll also need to use the KS toolbar. That won't be much of a problem for you, since it is patterned after the one in SOWGB. But if you use the Bugles & Flags TB, you'll have to bug RebBugler to get on the stick and make a version of his Grog TB, (much better than the stock TB btw), for the KS mod. Currently he is pleading too high a density in the gray matter region. :laugh:

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #53 by Davinci

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  • Before investing the time and effort into porting the ACW to this game, you need to ask yourself what will be better.

    Thanks, "MTG"

    The slower speed wouldn't bother me at all, I use a walk and run speed of "1" and a courier speed of "8" so it takes the courier quite a long time to deliver any message.

    One more question - Ten or Twelve Mile Maps wouldn't cause a problem with the SOWWL Game Engine, would it?

    I doubt that I will ever go back to the smaller Maps, the larger maps gives the Player and the AI that extra space to flank and surprise their enemy forces.

    Truth be Told, I think that I just want the feature of the couriers delivering messages like it was during that time-period!

    davinci

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    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by Davinci.

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    2 years 4 months ago #54 by Martin James

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  • The ability to detach patrols and receive their courier reports is a truly wonderful feature of the KS Napoleonic Mod. One can almost forgive MTG his many misdemeanours for this alone ;) .

    Martin (J)
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #55 by RebBugler

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  • Other than the skirmish issue, one thing you'd be giving up in switching to the new game is giving up a better LOS algorithm. The SOWGB LOS function is significantly better that of SOWWL. I'm pretty sure NSD used an older version of their LOS function when they ported the old game over. The KS mod has corrected part of that, but cannot completely fix it without the source code.

    You are spot on that the LOS issue fix goes back to an earlier version, probably to the Pipe Creek Line design period, MANY years ago. This is troubling since many other issues since then were also fixed!
    I say "probably", and hope I'm wrong, since the PCL LOS issue was terrain height, not woods, that artillery was shooting through. I reported the issue, and it was fixed, when artillery was observing and shooting through a mountain at their enemy.
    Question, besides Woods, is terrain height also at issue with WL LOS? If so, then that version of GB that was used for WL is VERY dated, and will always be a WL negative.

    Another area worth mentioning is a bug in the SOWWL graphics rendering of the battlefield. If you simply port over the SOWGB maps, you'll find that units appear to sink into the ground or disappear entirely for a brief moment. This is caused by the vegetation graphics, (trees, bushes, etc.) being on packed sheets. To fix the problem, we had to place each and every graphic on a separate sheet.

    Single sheets for individual graphics is a performance negative. Have you tried to put unpacked multiple graphics on larger sprite sheets and call them from their coordinates on the sheets?

    Sure wish my dense old brain could adapt the Grog Toolbar as an option for this mod as per our last discussion, however, I'm just getting denser.

    Mostly, it is just adapting the toolbar to the KS unitglobal formations. It is far more comprehensive. There is one tricky area that has to do with the scouting button, (only certain types of cavalry can do that), but even that is pretty simple if you use the KS toolbar setup as a guide. I'm happy to offer guidance.

    If you saw the intricacies of my formation files and how they relate to the unitglobal file you'd balk too. Still, I'll look them over again and possibly reconsider, and if opted, I'll need your assistance eventually, no doubt about it. This game is my primary resistance against gray matter aging, gotta keep on keeping on.

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    John Bonin "2nd Texas Infantry" (1977 - 2012)
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by RebBugler.
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    2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #56 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • Question, besides Woods, is terrain height also at issue with WL LOS?

    Terrain height does affect the shooting in the battles. Artillery is very susceptible to this. I personally have not noticed any shooting through hills, but others occasionally report that it seems as if infantry may do that from time to time. Most noticeable is how the guns shoot through friendly troops. The KS mod has largely fixed that problem, but it is not perfect.

    Have you tried to put unpacked multiple graphics on larger sprite sheets and call them from their coordinates on the sheets?

    No I have not tried unpacked sheets. I made the assumption that packing was not the issue, but that the multiple graphics on one page was.

    If you saw the intricacies of my formation files and how they relate to the unitglobal file you'd balk too.

    Referencing the formations directly out of drills.csv is not the way to go. Adding formation names to and referencing them from unitglobal.csv is far preferable. You can't do that because you must change the AI code to accommodate each addition. The KS mod can and has expanded the list to 19 columns. It can be added to as needed. Everything you'd need can be pulled directly from the unitglobal file.

    Davinci Wrote:

    One more question - Ten or Twelve Mile Maps wouldn't cause a problem with the SOWWL Game Engine, would it?

    There are no problems in using larger maps. We in fact, use a modified version of your ten mile map. As I said, the sprites sinking into the ground is the only map issue we encountered.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
    Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by Marching Thru Georgia.
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    2 years 4 months ago #57 by RebBugler

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  • MTG

    To get me going, please zip together the two latest KS files, Drills and Unitglobal, and attach them here. I'll add the Grog Toolbar formations at the end of each of them deleting the 'same name' GT formations. If that works, after some testing on my part, we'll proceed from that first step in making the Grog Toolbar compatible for KS play, hopefully including the best or desired functions of both toolbars as we go.
    The metamorphosis of :woohoo: Groginstein :evil:

    Expanded Toolbar - Grog Waterloo
    Bugles & Flags Gettysburg - Toolbar, Flags, Scenarios and more...
    __________________________________
    In remembrance:
    Eric Schuttler "louie raider" (1970 - 2018)
    John Bonin "2nd Texas Infantry" (1977 - 2012)
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    2 years 4 months ago #58 by Davinci

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  • There are no problems in using larger maps. We in fact, use a modified version of your ten mile map. As I said, the sprites sinking into the ground is the only map issue we encountered.


    MTG - Have you tried adjusting the [ levitate ] in the unitgfx.csv or the unitpack.csv to see if that helps?

    davinci

    The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!

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    2 years 4 months ago #59 by Chichetr

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  • For some reason I'm having issues with controlling my units much more than in older versions of the game.

    Question, what happened to the basic commands for units like in older versions (line, column by divisions..etc.), there seem to be very very few controls given to the commander here. I'm trying to split up various brigades to take different objectives but my commands are being completely ignored...even when I select my brigade commanders.

    Is there a toolbar that restores the older tool bar or gives more commands like in older versions? I used to be able to COMFORTABLY control over 65,000 men without issue and now I'm completely ham-stringed.

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    2 years 4 months ago #60 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • @RebBugler: Logistics

    MTG - Have you tried adjusting the [ levitate ] in the unitgfx.csv or the unitpack.csv to see if that helps?

    We tried that and it made no difference.

    Question, what happened to the basic commands for units like in older versions (line, column by divisions..etc.), there seem to be very very few controls given to the commander here. I'm trying to split up various brigades to take different objectives but my commands are being completely ignored...even when I select my brigade commanders.

    Other than adding one new formation recently, the toolbar hasn't been changed in a very long time. Are you playing as a corps or army commander? If so, the division commander is controlling his brigades as he sees fit. To control the individual brigades you'd have to first TC the division commander.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
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