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Questions/Suggestions

11 years 6 months ago #1 by Little Powell

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  • Post any questions or suggestions you have here.

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    11 years 6 months ago #2 by KG_Soldier

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  • Well. . . only that people make sure they can host a game before they sign up. But I suppose a third party could host and take one of the command spots and just observe.

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    11 years 6 months ago #3 by Little Powell

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  • KG_Soldier wrote: Well. . . only that people make sure they can host a game before they sign up. But I suppose a third party could host and take one of the command spots and just observe.


    Good point and I suppose that an Observer can be allowed to host. In the balanced OOBs that will be available for each week, there will be 5 observer spots open so anyone can join the game to observe.

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    11 years 6 months ago #4 by Garnier

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  • Replied by Garnier on topic Re: Questions/Suggestions
    Who gets to decide who hosts?

    Unless the OOB is exactly balanced (which I don't expect or want), I will always want to pick which side I get, thus I'll always want the other guy to host. What if neither player wants to host?

    What are the sandbox game and MP settings? These should all be written down because some may have a different idea of 'default'. Default I assume means whatever it was set to right after installing the game, but it would be good for that to be posted because we don't all know what it is.

    I assume there are no in-game rules, that should probably be posted too. In casual play we agree not to use the arty retreat button, but in a tournament I don't know how you'd enforce it.

    I don't want to be difficult, but it's important to lay all the rules out very clearly for a tournament.

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    11 years 6 months ago #5 by Little Powell

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  • Garnier wrote: Who gets to decide who hosts?

    Unless the OOB is exactly balanced (which I don't expect or want), I will always want to pick which side I get, thus I'll always want the other guy to host. What if neither player wants to host?

    What are the sandbox game and MP settings? These should all be written down because some may have a different idea of 'default'. Default I assume means whatever it was set to right after installing the game, but it would be good for that to be posted because we don't all know what it is.

    I assume there are no in-game rules, that should probably be posted too. In casual play we agree not to use the arty retreat button, but in a tournament I don't know how you'd enforce it.

    I don't want to be difficult, but it's important to lay all the rules out very clearly for a tournament.


    Thanks Garnier, great questions. This is exactly why I started the Question/Suggestion topic and made the first tournament Beta. :)

    Who gets to decide who hosts?

    Unless the OOB is exactly balanced (which I don't expect or want), I will always want to pick which side I get, thus I'll always want the other guy to host. What if neither player wants to host?


    The OOB will be close to exactly balanced. Same numbers, same weapons, attributes. If you don't want a balanced OOB then we can have tournaments with stock OOBs etc. If neither player wants to host, then maybe a friendly observer can jump in and host. And if that doesn't happen maybe NSD can decide who hosts. Or it can be on a first come first serve basis. So whoever replies in each game week topic, we start putting the names in the brackett. The name on top hosts.

    What are the sandbox game and MP settings? These should all be written down because some may have a different idea of 'default'. Default I assume means whatever it was set to right after installing the game, but it would be good for that to be posted because we don't all know what it is.


    Good point and I'll update the game information with that.

    I assume there are no in-game rules, that should probably be posted too. In casual play we agree not to use the arty retreat button, but in a tournament I don't know how you'd enforce it.


    No in game rules at this time.

    Thanks again!

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    11 years 6 months ago #6 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • Garnier wrote:

    I assume there are no in-game rules, that should probably be posted too. In casual play we agree not to use the arty retreat button, but in a tournament I don't know how you'd enforce it.

    With the latest patch, the arty retreat button no longer makes the arty invulnerable.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #7 by Little Powell

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  • I'm thinking about randomizing the list of players and then putting them in the bracket. The player on top will be the host.

    But this means that everyone that signs up must be able to host. Is there anyone that isn't able to host?
    Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Little Powell.

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    11 years 6 months ago #8 by BillyYank1863

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  • instead of declaring randomly who is host, just declare randomly who plays which side.

    That way it doesn't matter who can or wants to host.

    If you only give the no host guy the benefit of choice, no one will want to say they can host ;)

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    11 years 6 months ago #9 by Little Powell

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  • BillyYank1863 wrote: instead of declaring randomly who is host, just declare randomly who plays which side.

    That way it doesn't matter who can or wants to host.

    If you only give the no host guy the benefit of choice, no one will want to say they can host ;)


    Well the idea of giving the visitor the benefit of choice is to prevent cheating. I don't want to give anyone ideas (although people with mod knowledge would have thought of this anyway) but if you host the game, technically you can go into the OOB and change all of the numbers so your troops are elite bad asses. ;)

    So if we were to declare which player gets which side ahead of time, a host that is up to no good can go in and change his sides attributes.

    So if we just decide who hosts ahead of tiem, when the game is about to start and the players are at the select screen, the player that is not hosting chooses the side he wants. That way it's decided at the last second, and the host wouldn't have time make their troops elite.

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    11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #10 by SouthernSteel

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  • Will an NSD team member need to be present to observe?

    Also, what are the rules going to be on "gamey" tactics in battle (ie, people rolling up cannon into their line on the offensive to fire cannister)?

    Edit: I cannot host. I messed with it a bit but haven't been too willing to mess with the router in depth.

    Edit 2: Just another thought, if all of the games are at the same time, the likelihood that an outside 3rd party will be able to step in and host will be extremely minimal. Plus, spacing the games out might be nice for, say, our UK and European players so they don't have to play at 3 AM or whatever.

    I know a large number of guys can start playing Fridays at 6 PM CST, but there's no reason we couldn't stagger times after that, as needed. Perhaps give players a range of times to select from (so we're not all over the place) and have them choose ahead of time once the bracket is made up.

    Also, just combining some of the ideas above, perhaps we could always have a 3rd party host (so as to help cut down on cheating) and randomly assign sides right before the battle? That way we will always have a host (hopefully) and avoid any messing with the OOB.

    "The time for compromises is past, and we are now determined to maintain our position and make all who oppose us smell Southern powder, feel Southern steel."
    Jefferson Davis, 1861
    Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by SouthernSteel.

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    11 years 6 months ago #11 by KG_Soldier

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  • No rules on the battlefield. . . other than what your conscience will not allow.

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    11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #12 by Little Powell

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  • SouthernSteel wrote: Will an NSD team member need to be present to observe?

    Also, what are the rules going to be on "gamey" tactics in battle (ie, people rolling up cannon into their line on the offensive to fire cannister)?


    NSD team members are not required to be present to police the games. I'm sure you'll see them popping in from time to time, as well as participating, but they don't have to.

    There are no rules at this time to prevent gameyness. If you see your opponent rolling up cannon into their line, then you should do the same. If it's possible on the battlefield, then it's legal. ;)

    Well said KG.. You can be gamey, but it may give you a bad rep in the end. :)
    Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Little Powell.

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    11 years 6 months ago #13 by Little Powell

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  • SouthernSteel wrote: Edit: I cannot host. I messed with it a bit but haven't been too willing to mess with the router in depth.


    We will need to get you able to host then. You can refer to the support threads that have lots of good info on this. It's really not as hard as it seems, and there's many folks here that can help you through the process.

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    11 years 6 months ago #14 by SouthernSteel

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  • KG_Soldier wrote: No rules on the battlefield. . . other than what your conscience will not allow.


    I fear the consciousless are legion and their ranks grow daily. And as damaging as a bad reputation may be, it has no real consequences. This community is yet too small to cast anyone out (and I don't know how it could effectively be done, anyhow).

    I may mess with being able to host at some point, but I can also tell you that there are quite a few others who cannot host either. Whether they sign up or not remains to be seen, but I hope the hosting thing doesn't make folks shy away.

    "The time for compromises is past, and we are now determined to maintain our position and make all who oppose us smell Southern powder, feel Southern steel."
    Jefferson Davis, 1861

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    11 years 6 months ago #15 by KG_Soldier

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  • I'll host your games for you if you need, Mr Parker, aka Johnny Reb, aka SouthernSteel.

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    11 years 6 months ago #16 by Neal

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  • Replied by Neal on topic Re: Questions/Suggestions
    Gamey tactics, imbalance, general siliness and absurdity...welcome, my friends, to the MP community. LOL

    The various clubs have done a very good job handling these issues in the past. I would suggest KG_soldier, or JMayer as resources for a basic ruleset. Since pretty much all of us here have similar experience and common affiliations, I would expect each man to play in accord with what we would consider accepted practice in the organized MP community. The SOW Society rules are not entirely in place yet, but the Shenandoah Club has a ruleset that is perfectly acceptable.

    In all, I'm not going to worry about it. I would advocate for troops to be armed with 250 yard range rifles, which does a great job of deterring artillery abuse.

    An observer slot is a handy thing to have. As long as the game isn't crashed, it's quite fun to watch the battles, and to have an audience.

    Anyway, what happens happens, and above all I hope this is fun for everybody.

    N

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    11 years 6 months ago #17 by JC Edwards

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  • Neal wrote: I would advocate for troops to be armed with 250 yard range rifles, which does a great job of deterring artillery abuse.


    Artillery is for capturing my good Mr. Neal.......not routing.:evil:

    'The path that is not seen, nor hidden, should always be flanked'

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    11 years 6 months ago #18 by Michael Slaunwhite

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  • Little Powell Sir.

    I am wondering if you will be using Fraps to record a game, and post it on youtube for those to watch?

    Just a suggestion sir.

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    11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #19 by Little Powell

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  • mikesla wrote: Little Powell Sir.

    I am wondering if you will be using Fraps to record a game, and post it on youtube for those to watch?

    Just a suggestion sir.


    Good idea.. It would take a good bit of editing etc. to make it into an enjoyable video. The games are currently an hour long which I believe is too long for youtube. But if I can set aside the time to do that I'll be more than happy to.
    Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Little Powell.

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    11 years 6 months ago #20 by Michael Slaunwhite

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  • Little Powell wrote:

    mikesla wrote: Little Powell Sir.

    I am wondering if you will be using Fraps to record a game, and post it on youtube for those to watch?

    Just a suggestion sir.


    Good idea.. It would take a good bit of editing etc. to make it into an enjoyable video. The games are currently an hour long which I believe is too long for youtube. But if I can set aside the time to do that I'll be more than happy to.


    Thanks Sir, I will be one who will appreciate the effort.

    Cheers.

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    11 years 6 months ago #21 by Rich Mac

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  • Replied by Rich Mac on topic Re: Questions/Suggestions
    LOL I hate you! :laugh:

    Several of us had thrown around the idea for a tourney about two months ago, but it faded away. I was just thinking about it at work today and I wanted to fire up the conversation again. So, you went and beat me to the punch!

    For what it is worth, I was thinking of a 3-game series to determine the winner of each round. The first two games would have uneven OOBs with each side having an advantage and playing the part of the attacker, the last game would be an even meeting-engagement battle. Whoever had the most points at the conclusion of the three games would be declared the winner. You would only need to make one balanced OOB and use the in-game handicap modifier to give the attackers the advantage for the first two games.

    However, I was thinking of setting the tourney up for teams of two, but I suppose it could easily work for 1v1.

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    11 years 6 months ago #22 by KG_Soldier

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  • Just about everyone in the tournament has been playing with 250 yard muskets for all of the infantry. It certainly has reduced the amount of canister fired (and I think that's a good thing).

    200 yard muskets would be ideal, but as that's not a choice (yet, I hope), I agree with Neal and would prefer 250 yard muskets for the tournament.
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    11 years 6 months ago #23 by KG_Soldier

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  • I take that back. Everyone who is in the tournament has been playing or has played with the 250 yard muskets.

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    11 years 6 months ago #24 by Neal

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  • Replied by Neal on topic Re: Questions/Suggestions
    I would suggest the SC post a set of suggested rules for everyone to follow.

    Pretty much everyone in the tournament is from the organized MP community, and while we had disputes over many things, in-game rules wasn't one of them. It should be easy for everyone to accept and follow an in-game ruleset.

    Kg_Soldier, I would propose you post something to that effect (a ruleset).

    N

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    11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #25 by Little Powell

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  • Neal wrote: I would suggest the SC post a set of suggested rules for everyone to follow.

    Pretty much everyone in the tournament is from the organized MP community, and while we had disputes over many things, in-game rules wasn't one of them. It should be easy for everyone to accept and follow an in-game ruleset.

    Kg_Soldier, I would propose you post something to that effect (a ruleset).

    N


    I still like the idea of "if it's possible to do without cheats, then it's legal". If you guys are all familiar with your own rule set, you're more than welcome to go by it.. sort of like a set of ethics. But as far as "official battlefield rules" there are none at this time.

    The weapons are all US 1861 Springfields at this time.
    Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Little Powell.

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    11 years 6 months ago #26 by KG_Soldier

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  • Mr. Neal. I have no problem playing by the "rule-set" (or lack thereof) Mr. Little Powell has already given us. In fact, I have no desire to "propose" anything regarding rules. I made a suggestion about which guns I'd like to play with, nothing about rules. I'm confident if one of us proposed a rule-set, we'd end up with 20 pages of argument and no tournament. And I kind of like the no rules but that which your conscience will not allow concept.

    So I'm just going to play and hope for a win or two, and not complain when I lose.


    regards

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    11 years 6 months ago #27 by Garnier

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  • Replied by Garnier on topic Re: Questions/Suggestions
    Now that I've seen the OOB, it is not balanced.

    1. The yanks have two more rifled guns than the confederates, the confederates have howitzers as their counterpart.
    2. The yanks have _USA guns, while the rebs have _CSA guns, which means the reb guns are much worse at shrapnel and shell, only solid shot and canister are equal.
    3. The rebs have fewer but larger regiments. Some regiments around 600 men. These can take on a lot of 300 man regiments and win each melee. I think this is by far the most significant imbalance.

    Now to remedy this for the next round, some tips:

    The guns should be exactly the same on each side.
    The regiment sizes should be exactly the same on each side.
    But the regiment sizes don't ALL need to be the same, you can have variance, but have them matched with an identical regiment on the opposing side.

    (This is all if balance is a concern)

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    11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #28 by Little Powell

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  • Garnier wrote: Now that I've seen the OOB, it is not balanced.

    1. The yanks have two more rifled guns than the confederates, the confederates have howitzers as their counterpart.
    2. The yanks have _USA guns, while the rebs have _CSA guns, which means the reb guns are much worse at shrapnel and shell, only solid shot and canister are equal.
    3. The rebs have fewer but larger regiments. Some regiments around 600 men. These can take on a lot of 300 man regiments and win each melee. I think this is by far the most significant imbalance.

    Now to remedy this for the next round, some tips:

    The guns should be exactly the same on each side.
    The regiment sizes should be exactly the same on each side.
    But the regiment sizes don't ALL need to be the same, you can have variance, but have them matched with an identical regiment on the opposing side.

    (This is all if balance is a concern)


    Thank you Garnier. I will look into the changes. That's why this first round is beta. :)

    I think the better yankee guns make up for the regiment size imbalances, but I'll still make everything 100% balanced like you suggested. And make all the guns US. :)

    Thanks again.
    Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Little Powell.

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    11 years 6 months ago #29 by Garnier

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  • Replied by Garnier on topic Re: Questions/Suggestions
    It made it interesting in a sense but it's only interesting that way once. The yanks can win an arty duel which forces the rebs to attack, but the rebs can win if they just do a massed column charge due to the massive regiments.

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    11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #30 by Little Powell

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  • So what did you guys think of the first week? You guys enjoying the tourney? Comments? Suggestions? :)

    My only issue so far is not everyone that wanted to play was able to after the 8 player bracket was filled. Now if we had a bunch more people signing up, then we could have had the 16 player bracket.. Or maybe two separate brackets. I just hate that the players that didn't sign up in time (and people that lost) have to wait 3 more weeks to play again.

    Idea: What if I went ahead a posted a second bracket so new players as well as players that lost on the first round could sign up.

    So the current tournament with 4 remaining players would be Tournament 1 - Week 2

    The new tournament would be Tournament 2 - Week 1.

    What do you guys think?
    Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Little Powell.

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