Scourge of War Boards

I was wondering about a particular aspect of being in a Civil War camp. Though the subject may seem a little gross, please understand I'm not trying to be.

When an army was in camp, like in Winter time, or in a battleline for a few days, like Fredricksburg, where did the men go to the bathroom?

Did they dig ditches?

Lee had 70,000 troops, I think, at Fredricksburg, and the Union Army always had more men than the Rebs. That's a lot of men. Then factor in the horses. I can't help but think that the camps must have had a bit of a stench to them. And in the summer months, probably more so. Summer also bringing flies and mosquitoes into the equation. It's not the least bit surprising to me that so many men died of disease during the war.

In the biography I read of Jackson, it said that he changed camp locations every two weeks, when he could, to have a healthier camp site.

Maybe some of the re-enactors of the Forum have a little insight on this?

Again, not trying to be gross.

Nothing gross about it. Just basic physiology. From what I've learned over the years, the armies used trench latrines as one means to dispose of the human waste. Below I linked a picture of latrines in use. Probably not a pleasant area. Then there's that old question about what they used for toilet paper. Of course, the latrines were for a stationary camp. On the march I assume it was a spot on the side of the road, as it is in reenacting. Of course the reenactors have to be a little more discreet based on modern sensibilities. However, I have witnessed times when "discreet" did not come into play. Maybe someone who is knowledgable on the cavalry will know if the manure was gathered into large piles and then just left when the army moved on.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f? ... b133bce5c4

Like everything else in the army (at least "most" everything) camps for infantry, cavalry and artillery were carefully delineated, including the location of the "sinks" or, in more modern parlance, latrines. In actual practice, especially on campaign, less stringent rules were enforced.

In the infantry camp, EM sinks were located 150 yards "north" of the color line/arms stacks. The officer's sinks were located 100 yards "south" of the baggage train and an additional 40 "south" of the regimental "officer's row." The prescribed distance for a regiment of approximately 1000+ men between the two sets of sinks was approsimately 450 paces (yards - with a width of 400 paces). To quote the manual: "Both (sinkcs) are concealed by bushes. When convenient, the sinks of the men may be placed in rear or on a flank. A portion of the earth dug out for sinks to be thrown back occasionally."

It is interesting to note that no reference is made to location of streams for placement of either set of sinks. The concept of contaminated ground water was yet to be developed. Accordingly, the "seepage" from the sinks frequently flowed underground into the drinking water source (as well as animal waste from a nearby cavalry camp where the cavalrymen would water their horses in mid-stream and the horses would frequently "water" the stream or deposited their road-apples.)

Not to difficult to understand the numbers of deaths and illness when one considers the lack of sanitation while in camp. :unsure:

As to POW's, they were penned 50 yards from the EM sinks. :woohoo:

Thank you for the insight Kerflumoxed!

Quotes right from the manual!

It's not surprising somebody here on the Forum would know something about it. One of the reasons I enjoy the Forum.


Another issue about civil war camp sites that I think about is, how much of the surrounding trees would be cut down, for shelter or fuel for fires while in winter camps. It doesn't seem like it would take very long for a large military camp to use up all the local resources. Especially the Confederate soldiers, who had less supplies being sent to them.

And how quickly would all the horses in both armies, eat the grass in the fields near the camps. Did the Union army ever supply food for their horses?



I know these kinds of questions aren't action packed, but I just think about these things sometimes.

One thing that always boggled me was how did they get all those troops in those areas, also how wide is a regiment when it is in battle line. (in yards please)

Joshua l.Chamberlain wrote:

One thing that always boggled me was how did they get all those troops in those areas, also how wide is a regiment when it is in battle line. (in yards please)

I suppose that would depend on how many men were in a given regiment.

But to see an entire regiment in battleline formation, that would be an awesome sight.

And trying to maintain that formation when they had to deal with fencelines, treelines, and woods, seems impossible. From the accounts I've read, it was a very difficult thing to do.

Joshua l.Chamberlain wrote:

One thing that always boggled me was how did they get all those troops in those areas, also how wide is a regiment when it is in battle line. (in yards please)

Easiest to answer the last part first:

Width: The Color Line of 400 yards is based upon a ten company front which was "standard" for most regiments. Some regiments consisted of 12 and some less than 8, so, yes the numbers involved dictated the front. So, if you had a 40 yard front per full-strength company, it is relatively easy to determine the approximate front for a smaller/larger regiment.

Might note that there is "no" regimental command during the Civil War. Rather, they were referred to as Battalions!

Also, the regiment was formed on the "color company" or, as stated in the manual: "The color company serves as the basis of the formation and is the first to form; the color-guard being at the point where the centre (sic) of the line is to rest." (Gilham, paragraph 297) When marching, or charging in line, the colors were in the middle of the battalion, not at the front as depicted in the movies or TC2M.

Remember, the company/regiment was formed on the Color Line where the rifle-muskets were stacked. The regiment was formed in double rank, shoulder-to-shoulder and with 13" between the back of the front rank and the front of the back rank...somewhat like sardines. When they were ordered into March Column, theoretically the distance from the head of the column to the rear of the column remained the same 400 yards although this was seldom the case.

Incidentally, unlike TC2M (and I assume Gettysburg) the March Column was 4 abreast, not 3 abreast. Might add that the standard German marching formation during WWII was 3 abreast based upon their tactical development of a 9 man squad (gruppe) with a squad leader (gruppenführer) as number 10 in the 1942 "adjustment." (Prior to 1942, the German squad was composed of 13 men.) Have always wondered why the March Column in TC2M was 3 men wide...because of graphic limitations?

On the march, a brigade of four, depleted regiments of approximately 600 men each would stretch for over 1,000 yards on the road (assuming there was little or not straggling). When ordered to "Front" and form the standard 2 rank battle line, the frontage would be about the same as the number "ones" simply faced 90 degrees to the left (right) and the number "twos" stepped between them.

Now, "...how to get all those troops in the area." Everything was laid out "by the book" as has been traditionally through the military ages. In the case of Civil War infantry, the width of the camp of a full regiment/battalion of 10 companies was 400 paces (yards) and the length was approximately 450 paces excluding the POW compound and the advanced guard.

In a typical battle front, a regiment of 10 companies would advance 2 companies as skirmishers with the skirmish line approximately 500 paces in front of the main body. These skirmishers were to cover the entire front of the regiment. The main regimental body would be composed of 6 companies, including the flank companies and there were nominally 2 companies serving as a reserve approximately 300 paces behind the main line.

Hope this helps. :woohoo:

Ephrum wrote:

Thank you for the insight Kerflumoxed!

Quotes right from the manual!

It's not surprising somebody here on the Forum would know something about it. One of the reasons I enjoy the Forum.


Another issue about civil war camp sites that I think about is, how much of the surrounding trees would be cut down, for shelter or fuel for fires while in winter camps. It doesn't seem like it would take very long for a large military camp to use up all the local resources. Especially the Confederate soldiers, who had less supplies being sent to them.

And how quickly would all the horses in both armies, eat the grass in the fields near the camps. Did the Union army ever supply food for their horses?



I know these kinds of questions aren't action packed, but I just think about these things sometimes.

As to how quickly the surrounding woods were denuded depends upon the length of stay, the time of the year, etc., etc., etc. How large was the force, how large was the forrest, how many fence rails could be "removed" (Remember, you can only use the top rail!)...well, you get the idea! Too many variables.

As to the cavalry horses, remember they were kept on a picket line where they were fed (except in remount depots, particularly in the Northern Army). They did not run freely in the fields, especially as they neared the front. (Have you ever tried to catch a horse in an open field that did not want to be "ketched?" Can be quite the time-consuming task. "Wait for me!!!")

They were taken off the picket line to be watered, frequently by the number 4, the designated horse holder for dismounted fighting.

Manure...lovely stuff! Frequent policing details were conducted in any type of stationary camp with lean-to's being built during the winter months which required cleaning.

As a personal aside, I never found horse s**t offensive...makes good projectiles for the squeamish (or those with sardine tins on their shoulders, or to deposit underneath a set of blankets before bedtime, or.... ). Cattle s**t is not too bad! But that pig s**t...whole 'nother story...nasty stuff! :S

Thank you for taking the time to post all that great information Keflumoxed!

All of this is very interesting to me, and your knocking them out of the ballpark, so to speak.
I was really interested in your post about regiment formations. I didn't know any of that. Great stuff! It makes it easy to understand why a regiment had some of the difficulty they did in manuvers. Also why the constant drilling was so important.

Thanks again Kerflumoxed!! B)

I'll see what else I can think up, not as a challenge toward you Sir, but to learn!

Yes, GREAT info Kerflumoxed. Thanks for sharing.

I think the best way to get a sense of how much space troops occupied is to go to battlefields and compare maps to the actual terrain. I did a lot of this on my last trip to Gettysburg. I did a podcast tour of Devils Den, and it had a map that showed the troop placements around the area. It showed that the 1st Texas was lined up behind a stone wall in the Triangular Field, and they took up about half of it. Remains of the stone wall are still there, so I could clearly see how wide of a space the regiment occupied. It wasn't very wide at all, maybe about 50 yards or so.

There's also the excellent panoramic views from Gettysburg Daily. There was one posted a few days ago taken from Oak Ridge that shows Ewell's Corps' line, as well as the 11th Corps'.

http://www.gettysburgdaily.com/imgs/Oak ... labels.jpg

Warning: It's a very large image.