Alternative treatment for cavalry v guns

[mcaryf]

NOTE A MOD INCORPORATING THESE IDEAS IS NOW ATTACHED TO THE 4th POST IN THIS THREAD
Dear All

I would be interested in your opinion on this idea for getting round a current game weakness. What I would like the game to do after a cavalry incursion against artillery would be to have the guns rendered inactive for a period of time but not actually destroyed.

The way that cavalry can capture and thereby destroy artillery is an improvement on the original way cavalry had to man captured guns but is not really satisfactory either historically or in game play. Currently it is rather too easy for either side to send small raiding parties of cavalry to remove the other’s front line batteries. The AI takes virtually no steps to defend its artillery and even for a human player it is quite difficult to protect all your guns in a large battle from this type of attack. In one of my Waterloo campaign variants I have coded the AI so it can randomly mount three of these cavalry attacks simultaneously in different places and even though I know the potential of this happening it is still hard for a single human player to avoid losing some guns.

Historically of course the French cavalry regularly surrounded Allied guns during the great cavalry attacks but were unable or unwilling to damage them. I have seen some reports suggesting that French cavalrymen did attempt to drag away Allied guns but were shot down from infantry squares. Equally some British cavalry, after defeating D’Erlons attack, rode to the Grand Battery and killed some artillerymen but did not permanently disable their guns. In both the French and Allied examples the game would treat the guns as having been captured and destroyed.

I have devised two possible ways to temporarily disable guns and I would be interested in your opinion before I undertake the development work to achieve it, also I would be interested if you see any flaw in either approach from an implementation point of view.

My basic idea is this and it only really applies to battles where a significant number of guns are expected to be in fixed positions through the battle as was the case at Waterloo. I cannot and would not change the fundamental code of the game so cavalry will still capture and destroy artillery. The difference is that for both possible solutions I would create in the OOB 3 or 4 additional guns for each front line battery each with a weakened crew – at the initial deployment these guns would be hidden and locked. I would use the evtgiveup facility to create an event for each front line battery commander that triggers once all their guns are lost. In the first variant this event would start a timer for a variable interval up to one hour after which the additional guns would be unlocked and made visible. If the enemy had withdrawn then this battery would come into action for its original side under its original commander, however, if enemy infantry had followed up they could potentially capture the battery and if enemy cavalry were still present they would finally destroy the battery.

I do not think this would be too hard to code as I would just duplicate some of the entries for each battery so each “new” guns would appear in the same position as one of the previous guns and I would just have to change the gun name. It would be rather tedious to write the hide and unhide commands but again not too complicated. So this is possibility one.

The weakness of possibility one is that it would create more opportunities for each side to capture guns and bring them back into action. I do not really like that idea – firstly it never happened at Waterloo and the Allies had many 9lb guns for which the French would have no replenishment ammunition and similarly with respect to Wellington’s army and 12lb cannons.

In my second variant once a commander’s battery had been destroyed a timer would still be started but at the end of it a “way point objective” would be created over the previous location of the battery. In the case that the original owner of the battery triggered the objective then the replacements guns would appear as before. However, if the enemy side was first to trigger the objective then in most cases no battery would appear and the objective would cease to exist. However in a few cases, possibly for some of the 6lb batteries (which both sides had), I might create a new 3 or 4 gun battery in the OOB for that side which would then appear with a commander integrated into the artillery structure so the battery could be properly used.

This solution is more complicated to code because additionally I would have to set up objectives and create one or two “new” batteries to play the part of captured guns.

This idea cannot be implemented as a bolt on mod because it requires changes to an OOB file and almost all the scenario files. I would probably implement it for the Waterloo all day battle playing as the French.

Please let me know what you think.

Regards

Mike

[mcaryf]

I can give you an update on my attempt to change the impact of cavalry raiding versus guns in the Waterloo scenario.

My initial attempt was to use the evtgiveup feature after a battery commander had lost all his guns at which stage I would reactivate some using clones of his previous guns. This proved unsatisfactory as evtgiveup was very intermittent in being triggered even when all the commander's guns were lost - I am not sure if it really recognised "captured" guns as being lost. In any event it was difficult for the French to capture/kill all the guns as often one or two had time to flee inside a square.

My next approach was to set objectives over the starting positions of Wellington's front line batteries. Fortunately this coincided with the new release that made split battalion work properly. My approach was to take a cavalry brigade in Milhaud's Corps such as that belonging to Du Bois. I then split that brigade several times so I ended up with 3 or 4 squadrons each under a poor quality officer. These then became my raiding forces typically working in pairs to overwhelm a battery and any skirmishers in front of it. The presence of the officer enabled the objective to be triggered. The objective timer was set at 1 minute so the cavalry had to sit there taking some punishment until the objective was owned. I made it worth the cavalry doing this by making the objective trigger remove the battery howitzers from play (hide and freeze) and award the cavalry 30 VPs. The waiting period whilst under fire could be taken to be the time required to dismount and spike that gun. The cavalry can then withdraw or take whatever other action the player wishes. The objective also triggers 4 other possible events these either return 3 or more cloned guns to action for Wellington after varying intervals or, just for 6lb batteries, after a time interval a new objective might appear showing where abandoned guns are notionally located. Thereafter whichever of the player or the AI triggers that objective first will receive 3 working and crewed guns at that location. If it is the French these guns will be part of a hidden battery I have added to the French OOB as 1st Corps reserves. There are two Allied 6lb batteries that can be notionally captured in this way so the French can get one new battery of 6 x 6lb guns (two lots of 3 guns).

There are 8 of Wellington's 9lb batteries which will get guns possibly returned after a cavalry raid, making ten batteries in all which are somewhat compensated after a cavalry raid. I have not created a similar compensation for the French as they already have more than enough guns and the player should take better care than the AI in protecting them.

I have tested this out and it seems to be working. Unfortunately I cannot publish this as a universal mod as it requires changes to 4 files. The OOB file to add the additional Allied guns and French battery - this involves copying some of the existing guns and changing the unit's OOB identifier typically guns 1 - 3 become guns 7 - 9 otherwise with the same attributes. The Scenario.csv file has to have these new guns added. again just copy the guns to be cloned and then give them the new OOB name. The location entries do not need to be changed as these "new" guns are actually representing the original guns in the same locations. The battlescript file has to be modified to include hiding and locking the clone guns and then establishing the objective events and the unhiding of the clones. the maplocations file has to be modded to add the objectives relating to the original batteries and the objectives that get created to show where abandonned guns are located. Finally courier messages have to be created to report guns successfully spiked, enemy guns returning to action and 6lb guns being captured and put into use.

My testing of these mods coincided with me experimenting with giving cavalry units different characteristics. Thus I have given Lancers an initial hit advantage but a reduced chance of a second strike (lances were unwieldy). I have also made Chasseurs and Hussars faster than Heavy Cavalry so they can run away or withdraw successfully if given a chance to do so.

The cavalry versus guns change is currently only available in a version of Waterloo that completed my campaign series. It is possible at the beginning of it to trigger objectives that make the Allied/Prussians stronger or give the French most of Grouchy's force on the basis that Napoleon sent Grouchy with less men to shadow the Prussians. I can publish this variant now if anyone is interested. However, if someone would like me to apply the changes to the standard version of Waterloo I could do that but it will take me a few days.

regards

Mike

[Jean Lafitte]

Mike, I'll playtest, if that might help you.

[mcaryf]

Hi Jean or anyone else who would like to help me test my new scenario.

I have published a new variant of Waterloo which is the final scenario in a 100 days campaign series I have produced for my own entertainment. As such it is not the same as the historic Waterloo as it is based on different outcomes at Ligny and QB. It has a few new game features and has literally hundreds of potential variants depending on random factors so a lot of it is effectively untested. I would be very interested in feedback from anyone who wants to try it. I will attempt to rectify any errors you discover or suggest ways to work around them particularly if you are a long way into a game and it has crashed. It is a long battle running from 11.30am to 9.30pm so I would recommend you set up a regular auto save. I have set a Major Victory target of 50,000 points – I have been able to achieve that myself but given the many random events it might not always be possible.

Key Features:

This version of Waterloo has about 4 times as much scripted activity for the AI as compared with the standard scenario which will hopefully make it a better test for a human player. There are many additional objective locations. A number of these are to trigger reactions by the AI but reports may also give you warnings about actions at another part of the battlefield. Some objectives are intended to identify when Allied batteries have been overrun by cavalry raids, in these cases some of the “lost” guns may be put back into action later if the Allies still own that part of the battlefield. In a few cases the French also get a chance to take over these guns and form them into a new battery under Captain Petain. There is another advantage to the French to capture the objective locations over the Allied batteries as this will result in the spiking of the deadly Allied howitzers in that battery which might otherwise have escaped by withdrawing. These howitzers can fire highly effective Shrapnel at up to 750 yards so are still dangerous even if driven back. Just as a note I use the new facility to split brigades to create additional cavalry commanders who can command single squadrons and take objective locations. Capturing some key objectives may cause some Allied units to withdraw from the field, notionally these might be Dutch or Belgian troops withdrawing to man the defences at Brussels. Marshall Ney will provide reports of these withdrawals but as was the case historically he might sometimes be mistaken! Note I hope to include Marshall Ney in person in a future release as a Cavalry Corps Commander but I have not finished that change yet.

You are given 3 choices at the start of this scenario – first you can choose to optimise the Prussian deployment. In practice this means that Blucher sends III Corps at the same time as IV Corps as they could use different more Northerly roads from Wavre and would not be delayed by the fire in the town. Most of III Corps will therefore arrive at 11.30 am and join Wellington’s defence of Mont St Jean. Your second choice is whether Napoleon retained more of “Grouchy’s units” with him. If you take the option to optimise the French it will cost you 10k VPs but you will receive most of the units that historically went with Grouchy by 1pm. The third option is whether Grouchy was successful in delaying some Prussians at Wavre. If you choose that he was not, then Prussian units will arrive earlier and as a consequence Wellington will fight more aggressively. Even historically some Prussians were in the vicinity of the Bois de Paris by about mid-day but chose not to intervene until more of their forces had assembled. To some extent the Prussians will do the same in my scenario but if you move French forces too far to the East or, if Wellington looks like losing, this might bring on an earlier Prussian intervention.

Strengths were based on historical numbers at the start of campaign but varied by results of scenarios played out at Ligny and QB where some tactical errors were corrected – e.g. elements of D’Erlons Corps participated in both battles and therefore took casualties. The results were broadly more favourable to the French with a major victory at Ligny and a draw/minor victory at QB. The Prussians suffered more than their historic losses, including 62 guns, but as these were from Corps I, II and III there is somewhat less impact at Waterloo. The French losses were less than historic but these reduced losses mainly benefitted Grouchy’s forces who may or may not participate heavily at Waterloo depending on your choices.

Other features: the scenario has been designed to be played using my mods to artillery, terrain and cavalry capabilities. The mod should be the final one to be applied as the Grog Toolbar also adjusts some of the same files. My mod is compatible with the Toolbar as it incorporates the changes needed for it but adds further ones. Thus my mod must be applied last so it should be at the top of your mods list.

Changes to artillery are first to increase the effective range of canister to historic levels (e.g. 500 yards for 12lb guns), second to give Shrapnel its historic deadly capability. As Shrapnel is so deadly I have restricted this munition to be used only by British Howitzers. You should monitor units for sudden increases in casualties as this might occur if a British Howitzer has moved to be within 750 yards. I have adjusted the quantities of different types of ammunition so that Canister and Shrapnel form a significantly larger proportion. I have reduced the stocks of ammunition carried by French wagons, particularly those for cavalry units. I am still experimenting with this aspect – it is possible but unlikely that a wagon will exhaust all its stock. I have noticed that batteries left under AI control tend not to use Canister at longer ranges – it is best to monitor this regularly and use the ability for a battery commander to order all his guns to use canister where the fighting is fiercest.

Changes to cavalry are similar to, but not the same as, those implemented in the KS Mod. In particular Light Cavalry will have a small speed advantage as compared with other types so might be able to run away when threatened. Officers have been given a similar speed increase but the Waterloo terrain was muddy so generally rates of movement are reduced. Lancers have been given an advantage with respect to inflicting casualties with their first strike but any subsequent strikes will take longer. Heavy cavalry also has some advantage with their first strike but unlike Lancers this advantage continues for rapid subsequent strikes. In general the outcomes of cavalry engagements will be less random than in the standard game - there can still be unexpected reverses but less often.

I suggest you read what the scenario introduction text says about objectives – some will change from waypoint to hold after they have been taken. In my experience my VPs were earned roughly equally from objectives and casualties i.e. you might target about 25k from each, however, you might adopt different strategies to me. I would be interested to know.

Finally please note that the new features for cavalry required changes to those unit’s OOB file entries so this package of mods should be used as a whole and only with this particular scenario. If you leave my mod active and play other scenarios there could be unpredictable results.

Unpack the attached file into your Mods folder - it also includes the scenario and OOB file.

Good luck if you try it.

Regards

Mike

[roy64]

Can you still use your Cavalry Melee Mod?

[mcaryf]

Hi Roy

it effectively includes the same facilities but builds further on them so you should NOT use it as well.

Regards

Mike

[roy64]

Thanks Mike,

There's a mod called C"h a Ch Garde and Pr Landwehr Cav" I don't suppose you could check the stats of the of the French C"h a Ch Garde, they seem to get defeated every time in W10 but when you don't use the mod the unit it replaced(the ones next to the Red Lancers) perform well.

If it's going to take a lot of time there's no need to bother.

Thanks

Roy.

[mcaryf]

Hi Roy

I had a quick look at the Ch Garde mod and I can see an issue with it but I do not know if that would cause the symptoms you mention.

The mod makes changes to a file called unitglobal to introduce some new cavalry types I guess to give them new uniforms. Thus for example it has a new French cavalry type which ends: Cav_10 whereas the standard version of that file French entries end with a type Cav_9

Now the Grog toolbar mod also makes a change to that unitglobal file although what the changes are I do not know, however, I do know the toolbar version of unitglobal does NOT have a French cavalry type Cav_10. There can only be one version of unitglobal used by the game so whichever mod is applied last that is the version of unitglobal that will be used. I do not know what the game does when it has an unknown French cavalry type but it could explain what you see.

My mods also require changes to unitglobal - for example that is the file that specifies the speeds for each unit type. What I have done is to take the version of unitglobal that appears in the latest toolbar mod and apply my changes to that file and put it in my mod. I do not know what changes the toolbar requires but it is nothing to do with unit speed so I assume that my version of unitglobal will still incorporate the toolbar features.

This is why you need to put my mod at the top of the mod list if you want to play my specific Waterloo scenario but remember to disable it before you play any other one

Regards

Mike

[roy64]

Thanks for having a look, I'll stop using the mod for a while & see if I still get the same kind of results.

Your Cavalry mod has made a huge difference with cav on cav results, thank you.

[roy64]

The first thing I noticed with your mod is none of the Officers are on TC, before I knew what was happening I had troops were wandering of in all directions. :laugh: :laugh: