New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

A new section for modding SOW Waterloo. Ask questions, post tips here.
Marching Thru Georgia
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by Marching Thru Georgia »

"MTG" - in your opinion can the SOWWL game be converted over to the Civil War?
I assume you mean without having to write new code for the AI. The answer is that for the most part, yes. The stock SOWWL AI is mostly the SOWGB AI. Changes that were made were mostly in the areas of cavalry, skirmishers and fortresses.

Since cavalry played only a peripheral role in the ACW, they can easily be left out of any scenario. In fact the stock SOWGB Buford scenario would have played much better if the Union cavalry had been replaced by infantry sprites. By the way, the dismounted cavalry logic was removed from SOWWL, so at best you could only have pure cavalry, not the 18th century throwback.

Skirmishers are a problem because the AI uses them in combat, whereas the armies of the ACW didn't very much. The simplest solution would be to remove the code from the AI, a fairly straightforward task, I think, but one that requires coding ability. Otherwise the next best solution would be to change the skirmish formations listed in unitglobal.csv to a line formation. The AI would still spawn small skirmish units, but these would at least be in line formation.

Fortresses are not an issue, since except for the SOWWL maps none of the available ACW maps have them, (KS Mod excepted, of course).

Other than the skirmish issue, one thing you'd be giving up in switching to the new game is giving up a better LOS algorithm. The SOWGB LOS function is significantly better that of SOWWL. I'm pretty sure NSD used an older version of their LOS function when they ported the old game over. The KS mod has corrected part of that, but cannot completely fix it without the source code.

Another area worth mentioning is a bug in the SOWWL graphics rendering of the battlefield. If you simply port over the SOWGB maps, you'll find that units appear to sink into the ground or disappear entirely for a brief moment. This is caused by the vegetation graphics, (trees, bushes, etc.) being on packed sheets. To fix the problem, we had to place each and every graphic on a separate sheet.

The last significant issue would be porting the sprites over. The csv files controlling the sprites are a bit different in the new game. However, I doubt someone like yourself would find it to be much more than a tedious conversion exercise. Use the KS files as a template.

Sure wish my dense old brain could adapt the Grog Toolbar as an option for this mod as per our last discussion, however, I'm just getting denser.
Mostly, it is just adapting the toolbar to the KS unitglobal formations. It is far more comprehensive. There is one tricky area that has to do with the scouting button, (only certain types of cavalry can do that), but even that is pretty simple if you use the KS toolbar setup as a guide. I'm happy to offer guidance.
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
Davinci
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by Davinci »

I assume you mean without having to write new code for the AI. The answer is that for the most part, yes.
Correct, I don't have any C++ Programming knowledge.

Thanks "MTG" - I have been meaning to buy the Game just to see if it can be converted over!

After reading this, it is possible, so I might as well give it a shot!

davinci
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Marching Thru Georgia
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by Marching Thru Georgia »

Before investing the time and effort into porting the ACW to this game, you need to ask yourself what will be better. If you intend to just use the stock AI then you really don't gain very much. The troop movements are somewhat better, less collisions. But as I said previously, you'll be giving up a better LOS. You'll also be giving up quite a bit of game speed. SOWWL runs much slower than SOWGB due to its improper use of multi-core programming. You can get around that somewhat by playing the game in MP mode where only one CPU core is used, but it will still be slower than SOWGB. In playing that way, there is also the disadvantage of not being able to fast forward whenever you like as in pure SP mode.

The real advantage of the new game is the capability of tailoring the AI specifically to the time period you want to represent. Personally, I would never go back to the old game. This new one has much more possibility. You could utilize the KS AI which is much better than the stock version and gain the benefits of that. However, it is designed for a much more complex battlespace than ACW. By getting rid of assault column formations, along with skirmish formations, you may be able to have a pretty good ACW simulator. That's just a guess, of course. I'm sure there will be a lot of little details that would have to be addressed.

Should you use the KS mod, you'll also need to use the KS toolbar. That won't be much of a problem for you, since it is patterned after the one in SOWGB. But if you use the Bugles & Flags TB, you'll have to bug RebBugler to get on the stick and make a version of his Grog TB, (much better than the stock TB btw), for the KS mod. Currently he is pleading too high a density in the gray matter region. :laugh:
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
Davinci
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by Davinci »

Before investing the time and effort into porting the ACW to this game, you need to ask yourself what will be better.
Thanks, "MTG"

The slower speed wouldn't bother me at all, I use a walk and run speed of "1" and a courier speed of "8" so it takes the courier quite a long time to deliver any message.

One more question - Ten or Twelve Mile Maps wouldn't cause a problem with the SOWWL Game Engine, would it?

I doubt that I will ever go back to the smaller Maps, the larger maps gives the Player and the AI that extra space to flank and surprise their enemy forces.

Truth be Told, I think that I just want the feature of the couriers delivering messages like it was during that time-period!

davinci
Last edited by Davinci on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Martin James
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by Martin James »

The ability to detach patrols and receive their courier reports is a truly wonderful feature of the KS Napoleonic Mod. One can almost forgive MTG his many misdemeanours for this alone ;) .

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RebBugler
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by RebBugler »

Other than the skirmish issue, one thing you'd be giving up in switching to the new game is giving up a better LOS algorithm. The SOWGB LOS function is significantly better that of SOWWL. I'm pretty sure NSD used an older version of their LOS function when they ported the old game over. The KS mod has corrected part of that, but cannot completely fix it without the source code.
You are spot on that the LOS issue fix goes back to an earlier version, probably to the Pipe Creek Line design period, MANY years ago. This is troubling since many other issues since then were also fixed!
I say "probably", and hope I'm wrong, since the PCL LOS issue was terrain height, not woods, that artillery was shooting through. I reported the issue, and it was fixed, when artillery was observing and shooting through a mountain at their enemy.
Question, besides Woods, is terrain height also at issue with WL LOS? If so, then that version of GB that was used for WL is VERY dated, and will always be a WL negative.
Another area worth mentioning is a bug in the SOWWL graphics rendering of the battlefield. If you simply port over the SOWGB maps, you'll find that units appear to sink into the ground or disappear entirely for a brief moment. This is caused by the vegetation graphics, (trees, bushes, etc.) being on packed sheets. To fix the problem, we had to place each and every graphic on a separate sheet.
Single sheets for individual graphics is a performance negative. Have you tried to put unpacked multiple graphics on larger sprite sheets and call them from their coordinates on the sheets?
Sure wish my dense old brain could adapt the Grog Toolbar as an option for this mod as per our last discussion, however, I'm just getting denser.
Mostly, it is just adapting the toolbar to the KS unitglobal formations. It is far more comprehensive. There is one tricky area that has to do with the scouting button, (only certain types of cavalry can do that), but even that is pretty simple if you use the KS toolbar setup as a guide. I'm happy to offer guidance.
If you saw the intricacies of my formation files and how they relate to the unitglobal file you'd balk too. Still, I'll look them over again and possibly reconsider, and if opted, I'll need your assistance eventually, no doubt about it. This game is my primary resistance against gray matter aging, gotta keep on keeping on.
Last edited by RebBugler on Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marching Thru Georgia
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by Marching Thru Georgia »

Question, besides Woods, is terrain height also at issue with WL LOS?
Terrain height does affect the shooting in the battles. Artillery is very susceptible to this. I personally have not noticed any shooting through hills, but others occasionally report that it seems as if infantry may do that from time to time. Most noticeable is how the guns shoot through friendly troops. The KS mod has largely fixed that problem, but it is not perfect.
Have you tried to put unpacked multiple graphics on larger sprite sheets and call them from their coordinates on the sheets?
No I have not tried unpacked sheets. I made the assumption that packing was not the issue, but that the multiple graphics on one page was.
If you saw the intricacies of my formation files and how they relate to the unitglobal file you'd balk too.
Referencing the formations directly out of drills.csv is not the way to go. Adding formation names to and referencing them from unitglobal.csv is far preferable. You can't do that because you must change the AI code to accommodate each addition. The KS mod can and has expanded the list to 19 columns. It can be added to as needed. Everything you'd need can be pulled directly from the unitglobal file.

Davinci Wrote:
One more question - Ten or Twelve Mile Maps wouldn't cause a problem with the SOWWL Game Engine, would it?
There are no problems in using larger maps. We in fact, use a modified version of your ten mile map. As I said, the sprites sinking into the ground is the only map issue we encountered.
Last edited by Marching Thru Georgia on Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by RebBugler »

MTG

To get me going, please zip together the two latest KS files, Drills and Unitglobal, and attach them here. I'll add the Grog Toolbar formations at the end of each of them deleting the 'same name' GT formations. If that works, after some testing on my part, we'll proceed from that first step in making the Grog Toolbar compatible for KS play, hopefully including the best or desired functions of both toolbars as we go.
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Davinci
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by Davinci »

There are no problems in using larger maps. We in fact, use a modified version of your ten mile map. As I said, the sprites sinking into the ground is the only map issue we encountered.
MTG - Have you tried adjusting the [ levitate] in the unitgfx.csv or the unitpack.csv to see if that helps?

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Chichetr
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Re: New Version of the KS Napoleon Mod Released

Post by Chichetr »

For some reason I'm having issues with controlling my units much more than in older versions of the game.

Question, what happened to the basic commands for units like in older versions (line, column by divisions..etc.), there seem to be very very few controls given to the commander here. I'm trying to split up various brigades to take different objectives but my commands are being completely ignored...even when I select my brigade commanders.

Is there a toolbar that restores the older tool bar or gives more commands like in older versions? I used to be able to COMFORTABLY control over 65,000 men without issue and now I'm completely ham-stringed.
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