Cavalry Question

DarkRob · Post by **DarkRob** » Tue May 16, 2017 11:03 am

Hmm. Well one difference could be that I have the Matrix games version installed from a disk and you have the steam version. I cant see any logical reason why they would be any different, but I suppose its possible.

It would be nice if the devs chimed in, because Im out of ideas.

Ive actually never used the sandbox. 90% of the time that I play this game, Im playing KS. I only play the stock game when I play the stock scenarios, as KS can sometimes unbalance the stock scenarios.

1% to 2% may sound like a lot, but it actually isn't because I normally don't do a lot of cavalry on cavalry combat. Generally when enemy cavalry come up I form square with the infantry and then have my artillery bomb on the enemy cavalry until they run off. Then I use my cavalry to force enemy infantry into square and bomb on them with artillery. Cavalry is powerful, but fragile. Often I use them just for the threat alone, to force the enemy into square and then pound on them with line infantry and artillery.
You can play some interesting games with the proximity effects and engage distances in this game. One of the things I do is move a cavalry unit just into that perfect range where they will trigger an enemy unit to form square, then I move them out of range, then back in and back out. In doing so Im constantly making the enemy unit go back and forth between square and line so they aren't shooting at me, while Im bombing on them with artillery and line infantry the whole time. Gamey tactics to be sure, but whatever lol, Il use it.

I did a lot more cav on cav combat than I would normally ever do when I played Ligny because I was purposely trying to replicate the issues you and others have been having. So it did happen more often and more noticeably than I would ever see normally. Of the 40 or so cav on cav combats I did during Ligny I had at least 3 for sure instances of French cavalry being mauled to death when they definitely shouldn't have been. And maybe I had 2 or 3 more questionable results, where they weren't maybe the freshest of troops, but I still think they shouldn't have been mauled the way they were. The rest of the time my cavalry did quite well in cav on cav combat. They didn't win every single one, but they won more than they lost and even the ones they didn't win and retreated the casualties were at least comparable.

Im with you though. Its definitely an issue and definitely happens more than it should. Hopefully the devs fix it. In the meantime, try avoiding cav on cav combat. Use infantry squares and artillery to make enemy cavalry pay the price for coming close. Use your cavalry to force enemy infantry into square and then pound them with line infantry and artillery. Artillery at canister range does ridiculous damage, even in the stock game. You just have to protect them more because the canister range is much shorter than it is in the KS mod.

The AI is honestly terrible at using combined arms itself. So you can just rock,paper,scissors the crap out of it.

Capt Saucier · Post by **Capt Saucier** » Tue May 16, 2017 6:42 pm

I got the matrix version of Waterloo on disk, downloaded Quartre Bras from Matrix, then got a disk for Ligny. I have not purchased Wavre yet due to the issues we have been talking about and a comment about problems with the download on the Matrix site. I am using 1.01.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:37 pm

roy64 · Post by **roy64** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:09 pm

I can't believe no one at Norb has responded to this thread, this really needs fixing. I just had a Cuirassier Divisions wiped out by a few Prussian Hussars. It totally F**ked up my game.

RebBugler · Post by **RebBugler** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:08 pm

I can't believe no one at Norb has responded to this thread, this really needs fixing. I just had a Cuirassier Divisions wiped out by a few Prussian Hussars. It totally F**ked up my game.

Sorry for you angst, wish I had a solution. A while back I did some testing in regard to these cavalry concerns. I set up sides with equal criteria across the board, experience, size of unit, fatigue, and morale. I attacked and received attacks testing offensive vs defensive advantages. Result, equal casualties across the board. At least this shows that with all things being equal cavalry engagements respond with correct results, and there's no bug at this level that I can find.

Yeah, I know this is no answer for your angst, because obviously by your reports and some others there's a glitch somewhere in the engagement criteria tables. Hopefully someone will root it out eventually, these tables are available for modding and this game as a whole is highly modifiable. As far as NSD is concerned, there are no further patches planned for this game.

roy64 · Post by **roy64** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:24 pm

I can't believe no one at Norb has responded to this thread, this really needs fixing. I just had a Cuirassier Divisions wiped out by a few Prussian Hussars. It totally F**ked up my game.
Sorry for you angst, wish I had a solution. A while back I did some testing in regard to these cavalry concerns. I set up sides with equal criteria across the board, experience, size of unit, fatigue, and morale. I attacked and received attacks testing offensive vs defensive advantages. Result, equal casualties across the board. At least this shows that with all things being equal cavalry engagements respond with correct results, and there's no bug at this level that I can find.

Yeah, I know this is no answer for your angst, because obviously by your reports and some others there's a glitch somewhere in the engagement criteria tables. Hopefully someone will root it out eventually, these tables are available for modding and this game as a whole is highly modifiable. As far as NSD is concerned, there are no further patches planned for this game.

What a shame. Maybe they should put a little note on the sales page, Warning: Cavalry may or may not work.

DarkRob · Post by **DarkRob** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:44 pm

I can't believe no one at Norb has responded to this thread, this really needs fixing. I just had a Cuirassier Divisions wiped out by a few Prussian Hussars. It totally F**ked up my game.
Sorry for you angst, wish I had a solution. A while back I did some testing in regard to these cavalry concerns. I set up sides with equal criteria across the board, experience, size of unit, fatigue, and morale. I attacked and received attacks testing offensive vs defensive advantages. Result, equal casualties across the board. At least this shows that with all things being equal cavalry engagements respond with correct results, and there's no bug at this level that I can find.

Yeah, I know this is no answer for your angst, because obviously by your reports and some others there's a glitch somewhere in the engagement criteria tables. Hopefully someone will root it out eventually, these tables are available for modding and this game as a whole is highly modifiable. As far as NSD is concerned, there are no further patches planned for this game.

I to have never really been able to replicate Roy's problem. And at this point I've played and defeated every scenario in the game and consider myself an expert on the games mechanics. Once in a blue moon I've gotten wierd results with cavalry engagements, but I could say the same for infantry as well. I just chaulk it up to extreme random results that can occasionally happen with the games combat results tables, but again, these are few and far between. As far as I can determine, the game is working as intended. I'm not saying Roy is imagining it. Clearly this has been a problem for him for more than a year. I wish I had an answer for him.

roy64 · Post by **roy64** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:07 pm

It'a not just me who has seen this happen others have to, even you have said you have seen these results.

"Only about 1% of the time did I see a fresh French cavalry unit go up a against a Prussian cavalry unit and get mauled 100-0. Enough for me to say that roy64 is not crazy and this is happening on occasion."

Maybe it's the way we play as I always take control of everything I can as you don't. Perhaps that's why I see it more than you?

DarkRob · Post by **DarkRob** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:51 pm

It'a not just me who has seen this happen others have to, even you have said you have seen these results.

"Only about 1% of the time did I see a fresh French cavalry unit go up a against a Prussian cavalry unit and get mauled 100-0. Enough for me to say that roy64 is not crazy and this is happening on occasion."

Maybe it's the way we play as I always take control of everything I can as you don't. Perhaps that's why I see it more than you?

Right, but we're talking about matters of degree here. I don't say I've never seen a wierd result, I'm sure we all have. It's a question of degree. I don't see it anymore than I would expect to just from random chance. I've seen far more wierd results with infantry on infantry combat simply because there's alot more infantry on infantry combat in the game. Hell, I once saw an infantry battalion charge a cavalry squadron and win. But these are few and far between and the exception rather than the rule. And like I said, about what I'd like expect to see just from random chance.

This is very different from your problem. From the way you tell it, this happens constantly in your games, repeatedly, over and over. And that's what I can't replicate. It happens to you way way more than it should, and way more than it's ever happened to me.

RebBugler · Post by **RebBugler** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:30 am

Maybe it's the way we play as I always take control of everything I can as you don't. Perhaps that's why I see it more than you?

This could be your issue if you're TC'ing level 6 (squadrons) and forcing them to engage. To force units into engagements only use attackmarch, TC'd units are mindless and highly vulnerable. The only reason I left the TC function on level 6 with the Grog Toolbar is that TC is the most effective way to get units OUT of engagements. Otherwise TC on level 6 is like a suicide button if folks don't know when and how to use it effectively.

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