KS MOD questions

[Chichetr]

Hey guys,

So I decided to try out KS mod and everything seems to be working fine with the mod itself. However, I'm extremely confused by how to command the men on the field. I go into the OOB and try selecting the main commander, there seem to be no options to move troops in formations at all. I go and select other minor commanders and the same thing happens. The toolbar seems very basic.

Additionally my army seems to immediately move on it's own in all different directions unknown making it extremely annoying to try and wrangle units together.


Any advice/tutorials would be great. I am a very competent corps commander and can normally move and coordinate very large bodies of men in the regular game without any issue and generally seamlessly.

Any help would be great.

[Chichetr]

Just had a fine engagement in KS for the first time. Played the Alpine map (LOVELY map) and was a Russian corps facing an equally sized French corps with two objectives.

The French ALMOST made it to the main objective before I could get there but I performed a delaying action with a brave cavalry brigade to delay the Frenchies JUST enough to allow my boys to move in and form a defensive position on the objective. Needless to say many Russian mothers are weeping at the sacrifice of their brave, brave sons.

I LOVE the command map function by the way!

I'm starting to get the hang of commands, they seem to be a simpler version for SOWWL.

I guess now my main questions are how do I globally "TC" units on a brigade/division level all at once? I would position my chaps in place but then they would wander off after I ordered them to a certain position. I would then go and one-by-one TC each regiment (a bit of a hastle).

Also, is there any way to command multiple corps in sandbox mode?


Great work here guys, really!

[Saddletank]

Pleased to hear you are having fun. If you like the basic Alpine map you should try the Russian winter version courtesy of Crikey. It really feels like you need a scarf and gloves when playing that. Try the 1807 armies on it. The greatcoated sprites were made by Pom and they really fit the scene.

There isn't a way to TC multiple units at once unless you TC a division or brigade commander and that will usually do the trick. His subordinates remain un-TC'd but his AI stance is disabled so his formation will generally stay where you want it.

We try to encourage players to TC much less and rely on the AI's styles and stances more. We feel that the game's strengths lie here and also that too many players play this game in a micro-managed format and we feel that people are missing a lot of fun when you do that. Armies were not robots and subordinate generals would frequently interpret their seniors wishes in unexpected ways, or for unknown reasons behave even contrary to what a c-in-c may wish! You read about so many campaigns or battles lost by reason of personal friction between officers and our take on the game's AI covers these kinds of instances. A good C-in-C will keep a watchful eye and a ready reserve to counter such surprises

Yes, the interface is deliberately much simpler than the stock game. We took the toolbar back to a more basic feel that came with the game Gettysburg and with which the main mod team were all more comfortable. If you are used to the Waterloo stock version it will seem strange at first but you'll soon get the hang of it.

I think sandbox will let you have up to two corps, you need to try a few different settings. I usually play only at the division level as a subordinate to a player-led corps (in MP that is) so my use of the sandbox mode is mostly limited to game testing and such.

[Little Powell]

tcofficers is a great command for TC'ing all officers of that selected unit. In fact, most of my large scenarios start with all officers already TC'd because it's just much easier to manage your troops that way.

But you can pull up the command console by pressing the ` key. The ` key is typically directly to the left of the 1 key on English keyboards.

Select the officer, pull up the command console, type tcofficers, hit enter, and presto. That officer, and all of his subordinate officers will be TC'd.

[voltigeur]

tcofficers is a great command for TC'ing all officers of that selected unit.

But LP, this handy command doesn't work in MP does it?

cheers

[Gran Capitán]

Also, is there any way to command multiple corps in sandbox mode?

You can play full army battles in sandbox with the "hunt them down" mode, with "attack" or "defend" you will get just one corps per side.

[WAGNER JR]

Hi,

don't know if it's the good place to give you my feeling with KS mod.

This mod is wonderfull, uniforms, music, formation everything but ....

The Canister Range !!!!!! I know that's a choice to increase it compare to the stock game in order to make artillery more efficient, I know that in ks MOD THE BATTERY CANNOT CHANGE DIRECTION EASILY IN ORDER TO LET A CHANGE TO ATTACK IT BY THE SIDES.

Sorry, for me that mod is quasi perfect but I don't use it just because of the canister range that is not, and realy not realistic. Feel playing a game more than a simulation.

Hope you'll understand....

Regards

[Saddletank]

That's fine, everyone has their preferred way to play and their own view on what kind of gaming experience SoW should give them. The canister ranges and effects though in the KS Mod are much more realistic than in the stock game, as is the effect of artillery generally. A well-sited battery could dominate a certain zone of ground and frontal attacks on artillery positions could be terrible and bloody affairs. Our view is that the stock game makes artillery too weak; so weak in fact it's not worth bringing onto the battlefield.

To partly compensate for the power of guns frontally they are vulnerable to flanking moves (as they historically were) and a flank approach can be the best way to get an enemy to shift his guns elsewhere. We made them not turn because that was how batteries tended to operate. They were sited to command a certain area or interdict a certain target and individual gun commanders did not swing their pieces to shoot at whatever they wanted off to the flanks.

We also have a system where a bold advance or charge upon guns will force them to relocate rearwards as well which was a common artillery tactic.

While the KS Mod's artillery can be lethal, there are ways to counter it if you persevere with the mod. The stock game gives players a false sense of how powerful Napoleonic artillery was.

[DarkRob]

Hi,

don't know if it's the good place to give you my feeling with KS mod.

This mod is wonderfull, uniforms, music, formation everything but ....

The Canister Range !!!!!! I know that's a choice to increase it compare to the stock game in order to make artillery more efficient, I know that in ks MOD THE BATTERY CANNOT CHANGE DIRECTION EASILY IN ORDER TO LET A CHANGE TO ATTACK IT BY THE SIDES.

Sorry, for me that mod is quasi perfect but I don't use it just because of the canister range that is not, and realy not realistic. Feel playing a game more than a simulation.

Hope you'll understand....

Regards

The canister ranges in KS are ridiculous I agree. They can be edited though. My father was able to drop the canister range down to 300 yards in some of the scenarios weve played. 300 yards is still a bit far for canister, but its better than the 500 yard cruise missles KS artillery normally fires. The stock games canister is actually just as nasty as KS artillery, just at a much closer range. But when it comes to medium and long range fire, KS is way way better.

The skirmisher system KS uses also bothers me greatly. Instead of being able to split off small skirmisher groups from battalions like in the stock game, they go the Gettysburg route and essentially have skirmishers be a part of a brigade formation and have an entire battalion assume a skirmisher formation. The problem is, they are useless. They lose to everything so its better to just advance in column by division than it is to waste a battalion on the assault column or La ordre mixed formations. The skirmishers just run ahead, get mauled, fall back and you still just end up attacking in column by division anyway, just with one less battalion that got wasted on a useless skirmish formation.

They are equally useless defensively as well and probably more so. Try playing any of the Ligny scenarios as the Prussians where you have to defend the towns and youll see what I mean. It cant even be done with KS honestly because you need those small skirmisher groups to send forward to force the French to deploy farther back than they want to.

In KS's defense though, they have always maintained that KS was not really meant to be used with any of the stock game scenarios, but with their own scenarios. And in that environment I have to admit KS shines a lot brighter. The greater canister ranges become a lot less of an issue because you rarely start close to the enemy, the maps are way bigger and there is a lot more room to maneuver. KS Cavalry is also way better. They are gun killers. So artillery always has to be careful to have its flanks covered. I still say the battalion skirmish formation is virtually useless, as I said, they lose to everything. But in the KS scenarios its not that big a deal. Most of the maps are big open spaces, and there are no towns, just foundations where towns would be.

[Saddletank]

The KS canister ranges are historical. We wouldn't create a mod that has false values in it. Canister from the bigger guns such as 8pdrs, 9pdrs, 12pdrs and the Russian licorne gun-howitzers could and would reach out to 450-500 yards. Bear in mind however that at these ranges the canister is not very effective, just as the games musket fire at 150 yards is not very effective. Fire canister at half its maximum range and you will see true devastation. Do not confuse extreme ranges with effective ranges. The ranges of 200-300 yards mentioned are the really effective ranges and this is how the KS Mod plays.

Be aware also that the stock game has infantry muskets effective out to 150 yards which is too far. Musket fire was generally opened at around 100 yards with any effect at all and it was often at half that when it became devastating. SoW stock games can degenerate into long range infantry firing duels (as Gettysburg tactics did) but this is incorrect for Napoleonic warfare where a short closer range firefight followed by one side withdrawing was more common. With infantry muskets capable of 150 yards, giving your artillery a canister range of only 200 or 250 yards takes away much of artillery's short range advantage and makes it too weak vs infantry. Another reason we elected to go with longer ranges.

Artillery in the stock game is almost ineffective and it is far too easy to get a battalion to close frontally against a gun battery.

In defence of our skirmish formations I will say it is the stock skirmish formations which are useless. They are as vulnerable to musket fire as close order troops (KS skirmishers are far harder to hit and take fewer casualties) and the stock skirmishers will behave exactly as you describe if you let the AI control them - running around, getting exhausted and always moving away from approaching enemies. Their small size and dispersed nature means they can rarely put out any effective fire at all. In addition the stock game allows you to detach very large numbers of troops from all battalions, even from some units that historically had no skirmish-trained men at all. This is not an ideal solution.

However if you TC (take command) of the KS skirmishers they become truly potent. If you fight an 1806 battle you will understand one facet of how significantly more effective French tactics were vs the Prussians in their use of skirmishers - the close order Prussian infantry has no effective answer to the French open order troops. Playing with the KS Mod in periods of the wars other than 1815 can help you understand how the opponents of the French gradually changed their organisations and tactics to counter the French system.

I'd like to explain the logic of our skirmisher formations. The reason we placed a single battalion-sized unit (sometimes two; by the way, French brigades always have two skirmish-capable units) in each brigade is because we consider SoW to be a game designed to pitch corps against corps or division against division. If you were perhaps playing in a game that emphasized brigade vs brigade level combat then having skirmisher elements detachable from each battalion may be a better representation of Napoleonic tactics but since the games' primary focus is at a higher command level the multitude of small and somewhat uncontrollable skirmish units was viewed as incorrect. It sets the detail of decision making the player is faced with at the incorrect level. A game experience can degenerate into a click-fest; something we all detested. It is a similar reason why we made individual cannons not controllable in a battery - the battery is the primary and significant command level when you play at division and corps level. Thus we eliminated a tactical representation of troops irrelevant to that command level. Now the brigade is given what we designate a "skirmish capability". This can be significant if French or, say, a British light infantry brigade, or an Austrian jager brigade. Or it can be entirely insignificant or completely absent if the troops in the brigade historically had a weak skirmish ability - such as a brigade of Hanoverian militia or Russian musketeers. The stock game cannot do this. The skirmish unit attached to the brigade represents the converged flank companies of that brigade and is sized in proportion to the total brigade strength. The brigade commander is them assumed to operate all his skirmish companies in the one significant area of his brigade frontage where they are most needed. This allows the AI brigade to function in a reasonable and effective manner in terms of skirmishing - something the stock game cannot do.