I'm considering running a simple meta-campaign using Scourge of War and am looking information that would help me convert SOW battle results to something that applies to a campaign. Specifically I am looking for a source for the following information, though any relevant input is appreciated.
What were the average casualty rates from some typical campaigns of the ACW in terms of killed, wounded captured and missing?
What were the discrepancies between reported and actual?
How many of the missing quickly rejoined the side that held the field, and how many rejoined the side that lost the field? How many were captured?
What were the ratios of wounded returning quickly to the ranks, and those essentially lost for the campaign?
What was attrition from various causes (illness, desertion) when on the march and in camp?
After a march, how long did it take stragglers to rejoin?
SOW seems to have extremely bloody battles. Rather than try to re-balance the game to 'fix' this, I'd rather adjust the results after the battle. Has someone come up with a rough formula for this already?
Thanks
Questions about Casualties during the ACW and how they relate to SOW
Re: Questions about Casualties during the ACW and how they relate to SOW
Here's a list of casualties for Gettysburg along with number dead.
http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/ge ... ?tab=facts
I think with the SoW games they concentrate on large bloody battles so there will be a lot of casualties. It always blows my mind when reading about these battles how many people were killed or wounded in these large battles (which we don't really experience now in the era of modern warfare). The battle of Gettysburg casualties could fill an entire sports stadium.
Anyway...it would be interesting to compare the actual estimates to a play through of the 3Days in 7 Hours senario to see how close they are.
http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/ge ... ?tab=facts
I think with the SoW games they concentrate on large bloody battles so there will be a lot of casualties. It always blows my mind when reading about these battles how many people were killed or wounded in these large battles (which we don't really experience now in the era of modern warfare). The battle of Gettysburg casualties could fill an entire sports stadium.
Anyway...it would be interesting to compare the actual estimates to a play through of the 3Days in 7 Hours senario to see how close they are.
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Anthropoid
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Re: Questions about Casualties during the ACW and how they relate to SOW
I have in the past bumbled onto some pretty cool amateur sites that had compiled various data about Civil War casualty estimates. If I manage to find any I'll come back and edit this post to add them.
The one thing that I recall about 19th century casualty processes. Germ theory was not yet widely accepted. I think there was a lot of misunderstanding about infectious disease. Rates of death after treatment as a result of secondary infection were quite high if I recall. Rates of death from communicable disease were also quite high.
You can get a rough idea of how serious 'non-combat' casualties were from this simple table
Total deaths from combat (both sides all four years) = 214,938
Total deaths from 'non-combat' = 400K-500K
Total wounded (only numbers for Union are presented) = 281,881
The one thing that I recall about 19th century casualty processes. Germ theory was not yet widely accepted. I think there was a lot of misunderstanding about infectious disease. Rates of death after treatment as a result of secondary infection were quite high if I recall. Rates of death from communicable disease were also quite high.
You can get a rough idea of how serious 'non-combat' casualties were from this simple table
Total deaths from combat (both sides all four years) = 214,938
Total deaths from 'non-combat' = 400K-500K
Total wounded (only numbers for Union are presented) = 281,881
Re: Questions about Casualties during the ACW and how they relate to SOW
For what it's worth, in GCM I have 35% of casualties that the game counts be counted as recovering immediately after battle. In our battles this seems to result in recorded casualty rates between 20% and 40%, I'd estimate the average is ~30% of troops involved. Of course it depends on how early the losing side decides to give up or how much they fight before the time runs out.
In the game, when a regiment reaches 60% casualties it automatically routs, so the game will not normally have casualty rates much above that. (Technically you could, by shooting at routed units til every man dies.)
In the game, when a regiment reaches 60% casualties it automatically routs, so the game will not normally have casualty rates much above that. (Technically you could, by shooting at routed units til every man dies.)
Last edited by Garnier on Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Questions about Casualties during the ACW and how they relate to SOW
Looks like casualties for the Battle of Gettysburg were about 30% of total involved too. Of course since the game is more random than a battle that occurred once in history there will be a slight difference.
Re: Questions about Casualties during the ACW and how they relate to SOW
Thanks for the input. If anything comes of my project I'll be sure to let you know.
Re: Questions about Casualties during the ACW and how they relate to SOW
Reading Joshua Chamberlain's book right now...you can get it for the Kindle for $0.99 or free...I don't remember Here's some info that may be helpful...this is for Grant's Campaign so it will be a bit different than Gettysburg but it's got a lot more detail that you were looking for. From Ch. 1 of The Passing of the Armies:
The number of men of all arms present for duty equipped in the Army of the Potomac at the opening of Grant’s campaign, as shown by the consolidated morning reports of May 4, 1864, was 97,162. In the Annual Report of Secretary Stanton, November 22, 1865, this total is stated as 120,384. He evidently takes the number as borne upon the rolls in his office, which by no means always agrees with the field lists of those present for duty equipped, the absent on leave or detail, or otherwise, being usually at a high percentage of the total. The careful compilation of Adjutant-General Drum made from official field returns at this time gives the number present for duty equipped at 97,273-in remarkable agreement with the figures taken in the field. 1 The number of men available for battle in the Fifth Corps at the start was 25,695. The character of the fighting in this campaign may be shown, however dimly, by citing here the report of our Corps field hospital for one day only, that of the engagement at Laurel Hill, May 8, 1864: “Admitted to hospital, 3001; of whom 106 were from other corps; 27 Confederates; 107 sick. Sent to the rear, 2388; fell into the hands of the enemy, 391; died in hospital, 121; left 206, of whom 126 were able to walk in the morning.”
Or take the totals treated in the field hospital alone for the first nine days of the campaign. Number admitted, 5257; sent to the rear, 4190; died in hospital, 179; fell into hands of the enemy, [7] 787. Adding to this the number killed outright, not less than 1200, and the “missing,” a list we do not like to analyze, not less than 1555, makes a total loss in the Corps of more than 7000 men. And the casualties of the six weeks from the Rapidan to the James bring the total to 16,245. This is 3398 more than half the present for duty at the start. The records of the Medical Inspector of the Fifth Corps show the number admitted to the field hospitals alone from May 5th to June 19th to have been II, 105 of the Corps, besides many from other corps and not a few Confederates. Reckoning the killed outright as 2200, and the missing as 4000,— which is quite within the fact, makes a total of casualties for this period 17,305. Taking another source of information, we find in the Adjutant-General’s Report of losses in the Corps as given in the official returns of regiments for the same period, the killed as 1670; the wounded 10,150; the missing, 4416,— a total of 16,235. Taking the additional wounded given in the field hospital records, 955,— who would not appear on the regimental morning reports,— we reach the total of 17,190. The difference in these figures is remarkably slight considering that they come from sources so distinct. And the restless, fruitless fighting before Petersburg during the remainder of that year brought the total loss in the Corps up to 18,000,— this being almost a thousand more than two thirds of the bright faces that crossed the Rapidan in the starlight [8] of that May morning, now gone down to earth, or beneath it,— and yet no end!
Here's some info that may be helpful...this is for Grant's Campaign so it will be a bit different than Gettysburg but it's got a lot more detail that you were looking for. From Ch. 1 of The Passing of the Armies:The number of men of all arms present for duty equipped in the Army of the Potomac at the opening of Grant’s campaign, as shown by the consolidated morning reports of May 4, 1864, was 97,162. In the Annual Report of Secretary Stanton, November 22, 1865, this total is stated as 120,384. He evidently takes the number as borne upon the rolls in his office, which by no means always agrees with the field lists of those present for duty equipped, the absent on leave or detail, or otherwise, being usually at a high percentage of the total. The careful compilation of Adjutant-General Drum made from official field returns at this time gives the number present for duty equipped at 97,273-in remarkable agreement with the figures taken in the field. 1 The number of men available for battle in the Fifth Corps at the start was 25,695. The character of the fighting in this campaign may be shown, however dimly, by citing here the report of our Corps field hospital for one day only, that of the engagement at Laurel Hill, May 8, 1864: “Admitted to hospital, 3001; of whom 106 were from other corps; 27 Confederates; 107 sick. Sent to the rear, 2388; fell into the hands of the enemy, 391; died in hospital, 121; left 206, of whom 126 were able to walk in the morning.”
Or take the totals treated in the field hospital alone for the first nine days of the campaign. Number admitted, 5257; sent to the rear, 4190; died in hospital, 179; fell into hands of the enemy, [7] 787. Adding to this the number killed outright, not less than 1200, and the “missing,” a list we do not like to analyze, not less than 1555, makes a total loss in the Corps of more than 7000 men. And the casualties of the six weeks from the Rapidan to the James bring the total to 16,245. This is 3398 more than half the present for duty at the start. The records of the Medical Inspector of the Fifth Corps show the number admitted to the field hospitals alone from May 5th to June 19th to have been II, 105 of the Corps, besides many from other corps and not a few Confederates. Reckoning the killed outright as 2200, and the missing as 4000,— which is quite within the fact, makes a total of casualties for this period 17,305. Taking another source of information, we find in the Adjutant-General’s Report of losses in the Corps as given in the official returns of regiments for the same period, the killed as 1670; the wounded 10,150; the missing, 4416,— a total of 16,235. Taking the additional wounded given in the field hospital records, 955,— who would not appear on the regimental morning reports,— we reach the total of 17,190. The difference in these figures is remarkably slight considering that they come from sources so distinct. And the restless, fruitless fighting before Petersburg during the remainder of that year brought the total loss in the Corps up to 18,000,— this being almost a thousand more than two thirds of the bright faces that crossed the Rapidan in the starlight [8] of that May morning, now gone down to earth, or beneath it,— and yet no end!