Digging in

[Marching Thru Georgia]

Brick McBurly wrote:

Probably because the game manual makes a point of saying the Sid Meier games were the first step in the evolution of the "real time command simulation of Civil War warfare", making it the intellectual forefather (if not in fact) of the SOW series. It also states that SOW is the "third generation" in the family tree (with TC being the second).

And due to evolution, SOW has dropped its prehensile tail, left the trees and walks upright. In other words, SOW jettisoned ideas that didn't make much sense, e.g. trench digging, added better features, e.g. a brilliant AI. As a result it is far better adapted to accurately represent 19th century battles than Sid Meyer's ever was. This game simulates maneuver and fighting of that period. Digging trenches in the heat of battle would just look silly. There are any number of improvements on which Norb can spend his limited time. I would much rather see him invest his time on building a comparable AI for artillery and cavalry as we have for infantry.

[Chromey]

Meh.. Digging during the heat of battle? No I think reloading would be more helpful

Digging while resting and doing nothing? A definite maybe. I know some one else probably suggested this

to you devs a long long time ago and I'm flattered you are reading this really. I just wanted to get the

idea out there and see for myself what every one thought. No harm no foul just parleying some of my random

ideas to the forum! Also this game is much more superior to SMG on the tactical and strategic level. Just

want to put that out there. :laugh:

[RebBugler]

I think that everyone that cut their teeth on SMG initially wants this feature for SOW. It was basic strategy in SMG to get to that favorite high ground spot early and dig in, because if you didn't get the dug in defensive bonus, you'd be swept away by enemy hordes.

Maybe one of these days SOW can make stacking fence posts and rocks for added defensive bonuses. But short of 6 hour scenarios, I don't think digging in will ever be practical, or realistic...they didn't carry shovels and bayonet digging would be like scraping wax off a gym floor with dog tags.

[Shirkon]

I think that everyone that cut their teeth on SMG initially wants this feature for SOW. It was basic strategy in SMG to get to that favorite high ground spot early and dig in, because if you didn't get the dug in defensive bonus, you'd be swept away by enemy hordes.

Maybe one of these days SOW can make stacking fence posts and rocks for added defensive bonuses. But short of 6 hour scenarios, I don't think digging in will ever be practical, or realistic...they didn't carry shovels and bayonet digging would be like scraping wax off a gym floor with dog tags.

A point of fact. During the artillery bombardment prior to Pickett's Charge, some of the Union regiments south of the Angle (those that weren't already having the protection of the stone wall), seeing that they were in little danger due to the Confederate overshooting, tried to improve their position. After digging and scraping with their bayonets, tin plates and assorted scraps of wood for about 1 - 1 1/2 hours they had an impressive mound along their front of less then a foot high. It might have stopped an anemic minnieball aimed at their ankles, but as a fortification it was worthless.

In my opinion, trying to make defensive improvements is a long time consuming process. Any tools (picks or shovels) would be in the regimental wagons well behind the lines an unavailable once battle was joined. And even if they were sent for the only result would be to weaken the line due to detailing men to fetch the tools. No officer worth the title would weaken his force when he would be attacked at any moment.

Shirkon

[Chromey]

Well then ! I blame Sid Meier for spoiling me and some others with this digging in nonsense!

[IronBMike]

I think that everyone that cut their teeth on SMG initially wants this feature for SOW. It was basic strategy in SMG to get to that favorite high ground spot early and dig in, because if you didn't get the dug in defensive bonus, you'd be swept away by enemy hordes.

Maybe one of these days SOW can make stacking fence posts and rocks for added defensive bonuses. But short of 6 hour scenarios, I don't think digging in will ever be practical, or realistic...they didn't carry shovels and bayonet digging would be like scraping wax off a gym floor with dog tags.

But in a campaign context it could be a pre-battle option?

[Saddletank]

Certainly! (Or I'd hope so!)

In SoW v2 I'd hope that altering the maps would be made accessible in a limited way, so that features like adding earthworks, breastworks and such were possible, in the same way a player now chooses options like which side to play and which formation to command. It could be designed as part of the MP game set-up or scenario design.

The ability to replace bridges with burned or blown up versions, delete fences, or to swap out buildings for ones of the same orientation and footprint so that different regions can be represented would be fantastically useful.

A completely new base map design would be needed however.

[jri]

I may not have been clear with the " digging in" I meant a defense bonus for being static, awaiting an attack. There are cases (one would up) of soldiers piling rocks, tree branches etc. for cover. You are right about digging in. That was a poor choice of words to use in the context I meant it to be.

[Saddletank]

If such a tactic is allowed I'd want an attacker to have a significant bonus if he catches a unit in the process of making its own defence line, because a lot of guys will be away from the line finding rocks and fallen logs...

It may be best to only allow such a tactic while a unit is lining a fence. If its there for 30 minutes and doesn't move it can convert the fence into a better defece barrier.

The game is very much speeded up. Remember its about 4x to 6x scale speed so a defence line could be made in about 5 actual game minutes.

[35th Georgia]

One thing I see that could make it work would be in tiring out the troops building the works. Though they would get a bonus for defence the effect on their ability to stay in as long would be dramatic.