Canister Reaction, Artillery Improvements Request

[RebBugler]

This is a feature request I have submitted that I feel will apply to Nap as well as ACW. It is titled 'Canister Reaction'.

I'm not sure of a solution but am well aware of the issue of units lying down in response to a significant canister blow. Once they lie down and subject themselves to more canister blows they're eventually toast and rout. I've seen this many times, this is also common when units are subjected to long range SS fire, but that will probably have to be addressed as a separate issue. The common denominator is that units are in an ultra kill zone where they cannot fight back.

I have suggested two solutions:
1) Unit retreats immediately to cover or out of canister range. The cover part is tough because the AI still has issues with recognizing good cover.
2) Unit moves immediately toward the threat at a double until within engagement range, they then engage and continue forward, 'Advance' command, which eventually becomes an ending 'Charge' command.

Maybe both solutions could be coded depending on the unit's experience, morale, or fatigue levels.

[NY Cavalry]

200 yard rifles..........................fixed.

[Saddletank]

200 yard rifles..... unrealistic, so not a fix. We need a fix that is historical.

TBH I have never witnessed this behaviour, I suppose because I only play MP although I do use a lot of AI troops in MP games.

Either way Reb, to attack or fall back is the only option, so a move one way or the other depending on the style of the general in command would be best. "Frozen" generals should do nothing with their men and let them suffer which I think is about right.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

NY Cavalry wrote:

200 yard rifles..........................fixed.

I disagree. Introducing an ahistoric change to try to fix another shortcoming is a poor solution. Much better is RebBugler's suggestion of fixing the problem. Until it is fixed, just refrain from operating artillery in an unrealistic manner.

[KG_Soldier]

I think a much bigger problem is artillery firing through or right over friendly troops. I wouldn't mind historic 400 yard canister if guns have clear line of sight. But right now, you can set your guns 50 yards or even 10 yards behind the front line and they will fire and hit all day.

[KG_Soldier]

200 yard rifles..... unrealistic, so not a fix. We need a fix that is historical.

TBH I have never witnessed this behaviour, I suppose because I only play MP although I do use a lot of AI troops in MP games.

Either way Reb, to attack or fall back is the only option, so a move one way or the other depending on the style of the general in command would be best. "Frozen" generals should do nothing with their men and let them suffer which I think is about right.

I've never seen the behavior Reb is talking about either.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

KG_Soldier wrote:

But right now, you can set your guns 50 yards or even 10 yards behind the front line and they will fire and hit all day.

I agree, that is a problem. That's why I suggested people refrain from unrealistic artillery operation.

I've never seen the behavior Reb is talking about either

That's the standard AI behavior. It will march its troops up to rifle range and fire away while it takes round after round of canister. The AI actually taking a gun is accidental, not a deliberate act.

[Turbotay]

I don't see how 200 yard rifles is unhistoric. A quick, half-assed search on the net tells me that most rifles/muskets used during the war had an effective range of 200-400 yards or more. Now, I've seen several people here quoting books that say the average engagement range during the war was something like 140 yards. But to me, the operative word in that statement is AVERAGE. A lot of engagements opened up closer than 140 yards, but a lot also happened further out. If the weapon itself is capable of such ranges, why not allow it in game and just mod it so that greater distances have less accuracy?

I'm sure it would be very difficult to implement, but I think a way to add a large amount of realism would be to add a 'range to open fire' command for our units. Some commanders would want to start peppering an approaching enemy once they entered their max effective range, while other commanders would say not to fire "till you see the white's of their eyes".

But to say 200 yard rifles is unhistoric disagrees with how I see things.

--
Muleskinner

[Saddletank]

Because the AI always moves up to musket range then stops to fire, so in every game you'd always get 200 yard musketry duels, thus 200 yards becomes the average range and not extreme range. Its a common error by writers of wargame rules across many historical periods to give a weapon its paper capabilities when in the field it was actually used, more often than not, in a different way or at a different range.

Give a weapon its average battlefield range and then players must use that range, and no more, meaning most of your battles will be mostly accurate, instead of none of them, or a tiny percentage of them.

For the average ACW battlefield even 160 yards is very generous. 120 to 140 yards is more like the most common range at which opposing infantry lines engaged each other, far below the theoretical range of the weapon and far below the ranges at which Mr Enfield's testers, calmly firing at paper targets in the peaceful grounds behind the factory, would claim were practical.

[KG_Soldier]

KG_Soldier wrote:

But right now, you can set your guns 50 yards or even 10 yards behind the front line and they will fire and hit all day.

I agree, that is a problem. That's why I suggested people refrain from unrealistic artillery operation.

I've never seen the behavior Reb is talking about either

That's the standard AI behavior. It will march its troops up to rifle range and fire away while it takes round after round of canister. The AI actually taking a gun is accidental, not a deliberate act.

I don't play single player either, so I guess that's why I've never seen that. But I was referring to the regiment lying down while under canister fire.