Scourge of War Boards

Well, after about a week of constant playtesting here's my considerations I wanted to share with you all.

Let's start with the good points. This engine is a rock, not a single CTD. This is a 1.0 and it's easily the most stable thing I ever saw which is a priority at this stage. The only real problem I have is with the sound but I guess a solution is already underway. I could write for ages about the good sides of this engine but for the sake of brevitas I will just list a very small number of things that caught my attention:

Fluid: There's hundreds of sprites in motion and the scenery is built with the latest generation of textures... still it's fluid and that's a fact. If there was a chance to add in the graph options the % of men to be displayed in a regiment, those spare resources could be addressed into drawing a larger part of scenery or add more details but it surely came as a surprise to have almost everything maxed out and in a corps vs corps battle to have everything so totally fluid. Perhaps I am advantaged because I play with a VERY restricted camera view but I can't see anyone complaining about FPS shortage so it can't be just me the lucky guy, it means it's a good engine.

AI: If you consider the complexities of tactical combat, this is probably the only AI you don't need to give a bonus in die rolls. There's plenty around who are so stupid the players had actually to mod handicaps for themselves while there's another bunch of AIs around that are so stupid that the DEVS had to give them bonus to make them cheat on the player or there's no contest. This doesn't happen here. If you don't do things properly the AI will trounce you: see to believe.
As a sidenote, everytime I play a scenario and even more prominently in sandbox, the AI seems to come with a plan but it always changes and the AI always reacts in a timely and smart fashion (yes even my subordinate generals do). I have yet to play 2 identical games... the longevity factor is infinite in this game.

Moddability: Wait and see.

Everything is perfectible but nothing is ever perfect, right? This is instead where I think the engine and game could improve. Of course there's a big margin and this is still a game in its infancy so there's all the time in the world to see how it evolves.

Arty: We have already said that cannister is basically the only ammo that works and only at close range. Things are bound to change soon and the game will become even better. While a rgt will shoot separate guns at the same time (it's only a matter of weapon files as to how many volleys they can stand before all servers are killed or routed) I hate it that the only way to capture the guns is to charge them. That's because when a gun unit routs, the cannon is brought along. This is one of the things I really would like to see changed. Why should i charge a gun in hand to hand when I have 300 rifles at the ready to shoot the servers down? Why would the servers of the gun next to the one I just captured NOT rout? My infantry regiment has captured a gun 5 meters away from you, would you turn the cannon or flee? Self explanatory, if the guns are close to one another, a single charge should take them all but even if the gun is routed by musket fire, the cannon itself should remain there for me to grab.

Stacking: When units are involved in a melee, you can see regiments walk right through them. Same happens with a regiment passing over another regiment or a general passing through a regiment. Perhaps there's no need to make these sprites solid but working on the pathing could be a good solution. It was actually hard to manouver regiments properly but look, we've got the sidesteps and oblique buttons, very nice addition. I would just like to see a regiment NOT pass through another regiment because the way is blocked. It's about pathing not about building objects on the map.

Pathing: There's nothign worse than a stupid courier. Couriers take off the road from the closest point to you but that is not necessarily (almost never actually) the safest route. There's definitely margin to improve the way couriers select their path and this is also true for generals. I hate to see an enemy general walk right through one of my regiments and get killed but this is no mere problem of keeping a safe distance it's a complex matter of pathing that sooner or later we'll have to tackle I fear. Maybe the AI would find it useful (and safer) if the area of morale influence extending from a general was a bit larger. You really didn't need to stay in the regiment itself to boost its morale. Men knew a general was a primary target for a sharpshooter and would be happy just to hear the voice of the general behind them... surely happier than to see him dead ahead of them.

Generals' casualties: It appears that the only way to kill an enemy general is to walk right through him. I would love to see some of my soldiers take a shot at generals who are in range and that doesn't have to be following the same rules as shooting a whole regiment, of course the target is harder to hit but seeing an enemy general in front line and killing him only if he walks through your regiment is something I really hate to see.

Formations: The regiments must not be allowed to change formations unless I order so. They can't change to column just because they are going far. I need to see the gaps between one regiment and the next so they should change formation only if I tell them to or if they are closing to the enemy. Formation wheeling and changing is way too fast imo and it gets even faster if you hit the run button which, I am not sure is consuming energy so we could have a gamey exploit here at hand. I miss a button that lets me organize a regiment in lines. If a regiment must fill a gap between two regiments there's no point why it should be in 2 lines and half of the men are covered by the 2 neighboring regiments. Better set it on 3 lines and make the lines shorter but have all the men shooting. About the formation facing... didn't we have in TC2M a feature to let us turn the arrow by 90 degrees with a single click?

Charges/Routing: It was not so easy as it seems to capture enemy soldiers. That's because when a regiment routed, the regiment who standed cheered or was immediately engaged elsewhere. I surely would like to see my regiments cheer after winning a charge, then in disordered status take their time to get reorganized. Unless the regiment wanted to pursue... and this could be modelled according to the regiment's experience (discipline!). The way things work with all the formations and including this particular issue is too fast. As soon as you rout an enemy, your troops are already starting to shoot and I think it's improper. Surely cheering after routing a regiment in ranged combat is ALSO something that took place very very often.

Military bands and other unit types: I would so much like to see the military band, the standard bearer, doctors and nurses, the grooms and quartermasters, horses running wild without riders on the field... these things give atmosphere but I'm sure some mod will fill this hole. Most of these sprites would just be there for eyecandy while the other part would be inside the rgt itself so I am sure it will take very little for the community to draw them.

Well so far so good... I'll probably reupdate this thread when something else comes to my mind. Needless to say, I took my time to write it between a game and the other... which means: see ya, I'm going to play again now. LOL

I must say,very well spoken or written as in this case.

I'm going to use this thread as a sort of suggestion thread, my personal suggestion thread. I am also taking this opportunity to regroup all the suggestions I have posted already elsewhere and which lie scattered all around the forums.

Orders to AI subordinates: I have noticed I can give an order to attack/probe/defend/hold etc to a subordinate and this is immediately carried away and the same goes if I give an order directly to a regiment. With the thundering sounds of battle, I think even 10yds of distance are enough to make it impossible for the listener to catch an order... so I think that every time an order is issued, a courier should depart from the player to the bde commander and another one then from the bde commander to the regiment involved unless this regiment is just within 10yds from the commander himself (i.e. he's rallying them or offering support).

Then, only after this second courier has reached the regiment, *with an appropriate further delay depending on the unit experience level*, should the regiment carry out the order. Of course the first thing to do is changing the pathing of couriers so that they move on the safest and not on the fastest routes.

Essentially I would like to keep things exactly as they are so that the vast majority of orders are performed by the AI subordinates. The player should know that changing orders or micromanaging things in battle is extremely hazardous, takes time and it's indeed difficult and this is the main difference between playing as bde commander and Div (or above) commander: couriering and deliverying orders.

The bde commander is supposed to micromanage things either with couriering towards single regiments or by going straight there to speak the orders by himself.
I *certainly* think this is one of my top priorities towards realism and immersion and it is especially important when the immersion is complete with a 30yds restricted camera such as the one I play. I am *compelled* to let the AI carry out my orders because most of the times I can't even see the locations I would click on and, in order to see what's going on here and there, I must move around the battlefield.
I really *hate* the fact I can give an order on the other side of the battlefield and this is *instantly* carried away. There's no way things should be working like this. Not at high difficulty levels at least. Of course, a regiment may act independently and decide to charge/wheel/withdraw etc. That's what minor officers are there for. My idea is only for orders coming from the generals.

Scenery: We miss cows, donkeys, pigs, chicken in the farms. Birds flying in the air, the sound of birds singing when there's no shooting going on, etc. and ah... because of future "what if" scenarios, we will definitely need a weather changing ability sooner or later.

Edited and added: I think it would help visibility of units a lot to know which unit is selected in a better way. I am not really interested in seeing the picture of a general but i am VERY interested to know who he is on the map. The highlighted borders of his flag in the 3d world are not so easy to spot in the fray... I would like to see the portrait of his flag next to the picture so it's much easier to spot in the 3d world which is the unit selected that I see in the portrait. That helps a lot move and give orders to the right guy. I think flag portraits are more important than picture portraits even though i love the pix of the guys.

Just a note; a lot of the livestock would be eaten or hidden by the time the armies are around, I think:)

I know, I am more of thinking about civilians running away, dogs barking, easy things like that just only visual to add some life to the battlefield.

Gshock,
Your points about historical realism are well taken; however, remember that the fluidity that is so impressive to all of us is due in part because of the decisions of what to leave out of the game. An infantry cheering sprite for each uniform, multiple band sprites, multiple civilian sprites, multiple medical sprites, and barking dog sprites would each eat up a considerable amount of additional RAM, and thus risk the fluidity to which the designers may have set a high priority.

Also, from the beginning, Norb has said he wanted to game to be playable on lower-end rigs like mine (it does!!).

Had a great time getting my arse kicked in multiplayer last night. 60 minutes, no crash.

Oh, we had ideas of chickens scurrying about, etc, etc. :laugh:
But Tac is right, if it were only a matter of want we'd be chock full of every kind of sprite you could think of. As it is we pitched out four or five infantry sprites, some generals, etc, etc.
We even have some walking wounded for every infantry sprite..... maybe in time.

What can be put inside the regiment will not tamper with the resources, as the Tc2M community mod showed. The rest, of course will... but the point is that some rigs can really handle these things. Mine for example, CAN'T but I don't see why these things shouldn't be added in the game.

The point of it all is that you can use every sort of configuration, most users would leave these extras enabled only if they could afford them and, let's talk frankly, how many birds you want to show on a battlefield? Even bugs, ants and snakes would flee the battlefield immediately, lol.

GShock wrote:

but the point is that some rigs can really handle these things.

I doubt that, because there are OS and program restrictions.

I am carrying on with my enthusiastic tests in the Corps tutorial.

This tutorial is really hard for new players, they'll have to really work hard in the DIV tutorial if they mean to achieve something here. I did spot some very strange behavior for the BDE commanders but right now another thing that came to my mind, due to the overcrowded area of operations is the fact that with camera restrictions i am really unable to move the DIV commander where I want them to because their intended area of operations is out of my visibility range.

I think players should be allowed to issue orders from the map screen. I am on a very restricted camera setting and I simply can't click wherever I would like to. An important visual problem inherent to issuing orders is the fact that until the courier arrives to the recipient general, you cannot see the location of where you clicked. This is bad and it also includes eventual facing orders.

I confirm the issue on DIV -> BDE logic but I am somehow relieved to see, with a huge delay that orders are still being passed on. Meanwhile, of course, the DIV general is lost in front line on his own and all alone. The artillery also seems to be performing better but I can't say for sure because there's a lot of cannister firing involved.

I surely killed many CSA generals because they walked through my units... can't help being totally enthusiastic anyway so far. I am sure everything is different in MP and can't wait to give my first try.

One of these days, I'm still at the studying phase right now.