Multiplay totally broken-Due to Gamey ARTY TACTIS

[GShock]

To be honest, Norb, I am totally positive the arty will be fixed.

What I have no idea about is :

a) How you're going to implement routing servers who leave the guns in place.
b) What area to take for the overall morale loss of a gun which has not been engaged but who sees the neighboring gun servers routing.
c) How a counterbattery hit can disable a gun and send its crew flying smothered to tiny bits (and the relative morale loss of other guns in the nearby according to the aforementioned area).

Obviously hitting a cannon with shell or solid would destroy the gun while cannister or shrapnel would only hit the servers.

It's more than just designing new sprites.

I was thinking that the limber could be given the white flag when a gun routs. We could use the same sprite of the cannon without the gun servers when the unit is routed so that a very small group of routing infantry without muskets could be designed to spawn in the place of the abandoned gun piece (the routing servers).

This way the white-flagged limbers could be made change flag once the gun is captured and use the new flag and new uniform colors for the gun servers who captured it.

Designing the sprites is a piece of cake... coding the structure of what happens and how they behave is something else. Anyway... all in due time.

[MrSpkr]

One thing to keep in mind, norb, when addressing the artillery problems is the impact it will have on the Union Day 3 arty scenario. Before there are drastic changes to the close range artillery model, you need to be sure that scenario is still playable.

One question I have -- in the Civil war, if units were in defensive positions, was it common for the arty to be behind the lines, or integrated with the front infantry lines (particularly in prepared positions, such as behind nice stone walls)?

Steve

[norb]

I take my lead from our test team. So as they report things as issues, I fix them. So there is a good buffer from me screwing up the game or the scenarios Currently they are researching all the arty issues and I'm just waiting for the information as to what needs to be fixed. Right now I am waiting for a good save for the arty, so that I can research the number. RebBugler is researching the gamey tactics described in this thread. Personally I think it has to do with the inf not giving enough respect to close arty.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

GShock and others have summed up the problems with the artillery very well. However fixing these obvious problems is not so easy. These same issues existed with TC2M. There, I modded various files to increase the effectivness of arty fire at medium and long ranges. These mods worked very well and made artillery a useful arm again. Counter battery fire was deadly and infantry could not stand around all day under artillery fire anymore.

The hard part is to find a way for infantry to shoot rather than charge the batteries. The simple solution, which is to lengthen the musket range to 220-250 yds radically changes the behavior of the game. Inf vs inf is now a very different game. I personally didn't like the effect. It seemed more like WWI than ACW.

I concluded that infantry fire needs 2 ranges, one against infantry and a longer one against artillery. Additionally, infantry will need two levels of effectiveness at extreme range, the current one against infantry, and a slightly higher one against the arty. That way, artillery in the front line will have a relatively glorious but brief existence. Infantry will target it as soon as it comes in range. On the other hand, artillery behind the lines would be safe. I think that something along these lines might solve this long standing problem and still give the game balance.

[Kerflumoxed]

In the "For What It's Worth" department: Statistical data demonstrates overall casualty rates suffered from artillery were approximately 10% of the total.

J

[Smintar]

First and formost I know nothing about programing. So I don't know how inf. is modeled in game I assume that all inf. has the smoothbore mucket because of the 200yds to be able to shoot and sharp shooter have the Rifle Muckets where they can shoot 400 yds.

but this I know so Im posting it here: In a comparison done between the two weapons firing at a 200-yard target, the Springfield 1861 had an accuracy rate of 96%, while the 1842 was markedly lower, with a 74% accuracy rate.

I have been doing some other research to fine tune my head for little it does at this time an age. but for your perusaul http://www.nps.gov/archive/gett/soldier ... illery.htm I am there are better sites than this please post for they make good reading.

[norb]

We actually have pretty good numbers, the problem is in how the game engine uses those numbers. That is what we're researching now.

[Jim]

The line infantry on both sides had rifled muskets excluding a few units that retained their smoothbore muskets because the 'buck and ball' load was more effective at close range (< 100 yds). The two USSS regiments were equipped with Sharps rifles, which were breechloading weapons that were highly accurate. The issue with the accuracy of the line infantry is not the weapons but the training. There was little if any formal marksmanship training in either army. So the soldiers were the limiting factor, not the weapons.

-Jim

[GShock]

Marching through Georgia has got my point and he put down a possible solution to improve the way infantry vs artillery could be working by adding a separate section in weapons.csv perhaps to manage inf vs art fired combat. This could be working as a plus or minus or as a % of all tables figures together. I think the real point is that muskets are not deadly enough at close range but that's easily solved. This extra table could allow us to mod things differently between shooting targets (a regiment is huge, a gun is small).

This is a good idea but of course we need to change how the arty routs (leaving gun in place) how it takes morale loss (when an arty unit nearby is routed) and how it is utterly destroyed (by counterbattery direct hit from shell or solid) and not just the arty losses and effectiveness as being discussed in the other thread (Artillery numbers).

Those fixes can be done with research + modding. These fixes here require coding. And I'll say that again: Gamey tactics can only be solved by making things realistic. If the game is realistic, the only winning tactic is the realistic one.

Edit: On a second thought, this idea could very well take two pigeons with one basket - a second % table could be used to hit enemy generals. Of course pretty much harder than hitting the artillery.