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[born2see]

Beef, the kind of testing Norb is talking about is work, not just playing and reporting a problem.

There have been announcements in the NSD forum asking for testers in the past. Very few people are willing to make the long term time commitment to it.

This post sums it up pretty well:

http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/nsd-ta ... ng-for-nsd

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[Jim]

Just to give people a flavor of what we need from a tester, here is some text from one of three documents for new test team members. This specifically is step 1 of three in finding and properly reporting a bug so that Norb can efficiently see the problem and then figure out how to fix it. Parts 2 & 3 are managing the reporting and testing of possibly fixed builds.

-Jim

"Step by step:
1. Get a saved game with the bug.

1.1. When you are playing the game and you see something that looks like a bug, say troops walking backwards, exit the game. Open the directory /{game directory}/Work/Saved Games. In that directory will be a file “_autosave.sav”, rename this file to a name like ‘walking backwards.sav’. Restart the game and load up this save through the ‘Load Saved Game’ function. Watch the game and see if the bug happens again. If it does, exit and reload and select the specific unit that the bug happens to. Watch again to be sure it happens again and record the time on the game clock when the bug happens. Exit, reload, and select the specific unit again. Save the game with a different file name such as ‘walking backwards 2.sav’ within 30 seconds of the bug occurring. Reload the new save one final time to confirm the bug is showing up in this save. If you think that this sounds like a lot of loading and reloading, you are exactly right. It is important to localize the bug as finely as possible so Norb spends his time fixing the bug and not finding the bug. The step-through function in debugging mode runs the game very very slowly.

1.2. Upload the save file to the game server using Filezilla and put the file in the ‘To Norb’ directory.

1.3. Now report the bug in the bug tracking software:"

-Jim

[norb]

BS , Many GCM players have offered ,even begged to be able to test MP . We have 8-20 players on every night that would love nothing more then a perfectly tested MP experience.

Man that's harsh. I have no emails from anyone asking to join an MP test team. If you've sent one let me know the date and I'll know I'm wrong. It doesn't really matter, testing is not playing. It's something that people need to learn how to do.

Here's the last time we posted:
http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/nsd-ta ... taff#34088

I'm pretty sure one of us also extended the offer when they joined a GCM game.

[born2see]

Norb wrote:

Here's the last time we posted:
www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/nsd-talk/31845-qa-staff#34088

If you examine that thread closely you'll notice some guy named born2see volunteering to join the team.



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[Marching Thru Georgia]

1.1. When you are playing the game and you see something that looks like a bug, say troops walking backwards, exit the game. Open the directory /{game directory}/Work/Saved Games. In that directory will be a file “_autosave.sav”, rename this file to a name like ‘walking backwards.sav’. Restart the game and load up this save through the ‘Load Saved Game’ function. Watch the game and see if the bug happens again. If it does, exit and reload and select the specific unit that the bug happens to. Watch again to be sure it happens again and record the time on the game clock when the bug happens. Exit, reload, and select the specific unit again. Save the game with a different file name such as ‘walking backwards 2.sav’ within 30 seconds of the bug occurring. Reload the new save one final time to confirm the bug is showing up in this save. If you think that this sounds like a lot of loading and reloading, you are exactly right. It is important to localize the bug as finely as possible so Norb spends his time fixing the bug and not finding the bug. The step-through function in debugging mode runs the game very very slowly.

That works for simple, easily reproducible bugs. But many now are of the type that the problem is noticed long after the useful save has been overwritten. As I suggested a while ago, the autosaves should not be overwritten, but saved with their timestamp. That way the tester can cycle through several saves until the appropriate one is found. Otherwise it's pure serendipity.

[norb]

Great, a few more of you and we'll be all set.

I guess the min we need is 3-4 players. When we go beta we can do releases to everyone, but during development is when we really need it. We've got one volunteer, do I hear two!

[born2see]

Beef Stu wrote:

BS , Many GCM players have offered ,even begged to be able to test MP . We have 8-20 players on every night that would love nothing more then a perfectly tested MP experience.

Still waiting for those 8-20 players to step forward. I'm sure they're away for the holidays or have contacted Norb privately.




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[Garnier]

I don't think Beef Stu represents anyone but himself.

[KG_Soldier]

Beef Stu wrote:

BS , Many GCM players have offered ,even begged to be able to test MP . We have 8-20 players on every night that would love nothing more then a perfectly tested MP experience.

Still waiting for those 8-20 players to step forward. I'm sure they're away for the holidays or have contacted Norb privately.




B

I think Stu's referring to the fact we GCM players often asked for NSD members to come play with us so we could show them first hand the problems we were having. However, since Norb made the first MP patch and the subsequent patches, MP has gotten very stable. We now rarely have the hard crashes which plagued us for so very long -- years really.

In the beginning, well before the GCM existed, and then well into the GCM era, 70 to 90 percent of our games crashed. But we kept trying. And now I think I can speak for most of the GCM community when I say that we very, very much appreciate the improvements in MP reliability NSD has made over the last year or so.

You, B2C, really should come join us for a few games, as should everyone who plays this game. 16-20 player GCM battles are a spectacle which can only be appreciated by participating. And Garnier has done a fine job of modding the parameters and whatnot so that really gamey tactics are near obsolete.

No doubt we've had our struggles in the GCM, but we've constantly evolved (or at least Garnier has) the game so that right now games are better than they've ever been. Big, tough, competitive battles that are a blast.

I mean. . . just look at how cool this battle must have been: http://www.sowmp.com/gcm/battles/battle/12764

www.sowmp.com Come join us. . . you won't regret it.

[born2see]

K,

I think Stu meant exactly what he said but I won't belabor the point.

Here's the issue when it comes to MP Testing:

In order to rigorously test the MP features of the game there is no substitute for what you guys do. Hammering it night after night with that many players is a great environment for discovering problems. However, in order to fix those problems, we need to identify, document, and recreate them so they can be fixed. If you read Jim's earlier post and my initial one you'll see that it's not about just playing the game. There's a whole process involved which is different.

So let me reiterate what Norb said. We need a group of new MP testers who are willing to devote their time and energy to the game just like we do now. I was one of those who volunteered about a year and half ago and have never regretted a single moment. If you really want to contribute to the game, I would suggest you do the same. It's a great opportunity and besides, you get that cool logo underneath your avatar.



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