What good and bad things you can find in SOWG, which can be useful in Napoloenic Wars mod.

[born2see]

Jack ONeill wrote:

Speaking of games, are you figuring SOWGB out, or still just blathering on to show off your knowledge? Talk is cheap. Come on into MP and see how easy it is to get your butt kicked.

Can someone give me an a 19th century example of trash talking?

B

[Davinci]

Hey, Guys – this is my opinion relating to this discussion!

I think that he is using some type of laungage-coversion-program to decipher some of what we are saying, and this is causing a mix-up between everybody.

Now, we all understand all of our points, but he does not understand some of them.

Basically, I would think that once we get him to understand that there is a limit as to what can be changed and what can’t be changed he will understand a lot better.

Some of his demands would require a little bit more than modding, it would require a rewrite of the coding. Something that none of us can do!

Oh-Well!

Hey – He whom name changes with the wind – I didn’t know that you were into the Napoleon War , did you ever purchase the game Fields of Glory way back in the day?

That game was all looks, excellent concept, with some of the worst AI ever-written!

davinci

[Nowy]

Yes. Some of this stuff may not be able to be changed. No need to have larger sprites for Heavy cav.
Cav Shooting - Just take away the Heavies ability to shoot. No formation changes needed really, nor extra tool bars.

It is not so easy.
Heavy cavalry regiments had LESS men in squadron and there some other differences between nations
e.g. French carabineers, cuirassier regiments included 4 squadrons, while Austrian heavies had 6 squadrons
French light cavalry had more men in 4 squadrons, Austrian also more men and had 8 squadrons
Russian regular heavy cavalry had 5 squadrons and light even 10 squadrons.
Russian Cossacks regiment had nominal c.a. 500 men in 5 sotnias (100 men) in real there were less men.
Other countries oslo had some differences. These regiments had different amout of men.
It was somehow importand, when British cav. reg. had 450 men, Polish had 500 or 800 men, Fench c.a. 650 or 980 men.

The same story with infantry battalions.
If battalion had less companies it could have less men isn't it.
British battalion had betwen 500-1000 men. Check how many battalions had their Balck Watch and few other regiments too.
French battalion had c.a. 1000 then 800 men
Austrian (German) ca 1000, while (Hungaian) even 1200
Can you see these diffferences now?

Nowy - This is not a game about Geo-Political bullshit. This is NOT a game of Stratigic manuvering. It just barely come under the heading of Grand Tactical operations. (No offense to Norb/Team.)

There were ALWAYS local variations, but GENERALLY they remained the same. For purposes of GAMING, the above written might work.

Also, this is a LAND-BASED COMBAT GAME. The HMS Victory would be a bit out of place here. Also, minor countries tended to emulate their larger cousins, so no great changes there.

YES and NOT.
I know that SoWG is focused on tactical battles, however I got on my mind also campains, because NW weren't only one big land battle. Of course SoWG is land battle game, but historically navy were sometime engaged in land battles too e.g. Battles of Alexandria, Copenhagen, La Coruna, siege of Danzig (Gdansk) etc.

Combat tactic were not similar in many cases e.g. Spanish guerilla, Tyrolean rebels, Russian Cossacks etc.
According British, French, Germans and Russian I agree, but there were also many exceptions.

EDIT:
I don't want to show my NW knowlege. I put these examples only to show some problems.
I know that all games have LIMITS, therefore I ask you about these LIMITS in SoWG.

Simplifications and reductions are normal things, but there is question where, how much and in what things it could or should be done.

All you know better this game, therefore you can give me reliable information I suppose.

Think that we got too many informations at onec and too things we discuse now.

We could take a rest and then get to matter again, but we should limit discusion to few major things.

[born2see]

Nowy wrote:

YES and NOT.
I know that SoWG is focused on tactical battles, however I got on my mind also campains, because NW weren't only one big land battle. Of course SoWG is land battle game, but historically navy were sometime engaged in land battles too e.g. Battles of Alexandria, Copenhagen, La Coruna, siege of Danzig (Gdansk) etc.

Combat tactic were not similar in many cases e.g. Spanish guerilla, Tyrolean rebels, Russian Cossacks etc.
According British, French, Germans and Russian I agree, but there were also many exceptions.

Yes. But this game will never model the whole conflict. Like someone said, this is a mod for a game, not a new game altogether.

B

[Jack ONeill]

DaV,

Yes, one of the worst AIs' ever. Good graphics though. Also, if Nowy is using some kind of translator, it sucks. Yes, sorry to sort of hijacked the thread. Also, again, I had a huge 15mm. Napoleanics collection. French Army of Italy 1809, Austrian 1st Corps 1809 and a Prussian Division 1813-14. All with appropriate Foot, Horse and Guns. Played using the Empire 2 and then Empire 3 rules. Both of which I helped Charlie Tarbox write and playtest. 1-60 ratio figures to soldiers. But, I really don't know anything about the Napolonic Wars. (I knew a lot of players like Nowy, who would bog down the game with trivial information about this and that, until we banned them.)

Nowy,

When you can write the code, do the modding, make the maps, draw the sprites and everything else, you can have all the items you desire. I don't have the time to demolish ALL of your "game add-on arguments." Getting bogged down in trivia (what you are doing) is the sign of somweone who actually doesn't want to play the GAME. Compromises strike a balance between playability and accuracy. If all the items you want added in are there, the game will NEVER run. There isn't a processor out ther which can handle all the minutia you are looking for.

Jack "been there, did that, own the tee-shirt factory..." O'Neill B)

[Jack ONeill]

MTG,

Yes. The more useless the army, the fancier they got.

Jack :laugh:

[Jack ONeill]

So, actual useful stuff would be this - the SOWGB engine can run a number of uniforms on each side, as seen with the "Best" setting in the options panel. This is really the only issue I can think of that would be a problem.

Based on what our Glorious Comrade Gunship24 has already shown us, the following could be possible -

Using 1809 as a Base:

French Infantry - 2 Uniforms: Legere - all blue. Ligne - Blue/White.
Artillery - Dark Blue.
Cavalry - Light - Chasseurs - Dark Green. Medium - Dragoons - Dark Green. Heavy - Leave them out for right now. Also, let's leave out the Hussars. Wildly colorful. Maybe later.

Austrian Infantry - 2 types - German - All white. Hungarian - White/light blue. Grenidier Battalions wore the same as the line but add a bearskin hat/helmet.
Artillery - Brown/white.
Cavalry - various - Light - Chevaux Leger - white or Green/white. Medium - Dragoons - White or Green/white. Heavies - again leave them out for right now.

Now, some nitpicking idiot will say "What about the French Guard, etc....." OR "What about the French Lancers or the Austrian Uhlans?" Shut up. The French Middle Guard was at Aspern-Essling and Wagram, but their uniforms were very similar to frnch ligne troops. Napoleon converted 6 regiments of Dragoons to Lancers in 1810, so they weren't there. There were only 3 regiments of Uhlans, (German lancers), in the whole Austrian Army, so if they are missing right now, oh well.

Ah yes, what about Hussars? Having painted dozens of them, I can safely say, for gaming purposes, lets' stick to the easy ones to run. Their uniforms were wildly colorful and would tax the SOWGB engine a bit.

The above is by no means the penultimate in information. It is only a baseline of information I think would allow the game engine to run a really cool Modded Game.

Sic Semper Annoyance

Jack B)

[born2see]

Jack,

I have to ask about the French Guard, French Lancers, and the Austrian Uhlans? I think the Uhlans are essential.

B

[Jack ONeill]

Born,

Fine - be that way...

The French Old Guard were rarely used in combat. The THREAT of them was the idea, not the actual comiiting them to Battle, Something Napoleon was loathe to do. There were plenty of Battles where there were no Guard troops at all. (Spain, perhaps, after 1808.) Therefore the Middle Guard could be done, as I said before, since their uniform was similar to the French Line Infantry.

French Lancers - again, since Gunship is using 1809 as a baseline for uniforms, there were no French Lancers until 1810. The entire 1809 Campaign in Austria only lasted the one year.

Austrian Uhlans - can be done. Basic uniform was green. The only difficulty would be doing the Polish Czaptcha helmet which all lancers wore, regardless of nationality. (Now that I think about it, I don't think the Russians did. Hmmm...)

There you go, B.

Jack B)

[born2see]

Thanks Jack.

I have to ask you in all seriousness; where did you get all this knowledge? I'm new to the whole period of 19th century warfare and I'm continually amazed at the expertise I find here.

I try to read and study as much as I can but it must have taken years for you and others to be able to cite this stuff from the top of your head.

B