Scourge of War Boards

Armchair General wrote:

Looking at the 'Gettysburg Companion' by Mark Adkin, in the artillery section, he breaks down the different guns used at Gettysburg.

3-inch Ordinance Rifle: "It fired all projectiles except solid shot."

Parrot Rifle: "As with all rifled cannon, its effectiveness at close range with canister was not that of a smoothbore... like the 3-inch Ordnance Rifle, the Union Parrots at GBurg did not hold or fire solid shot."

He does not mention if any of the other guns, (James Rifle, 3-Inch Navy Rifle, etc) fired canister. Hopes this helped.

Thanks for the info, I sent an email to a fellow named Jack Melton, seems to be an authority on civil war cannons, has a web site that covers all aspects of artillery from the era. Been searching the web to find a rock solid answer to the cannister question. So far it has been futile. There's a "young" forum member (Kerflumoxed) up in Maine who is very knowledgible about artillery who has come up with some interesting quotes also. I don't give up easily, if I have doubt about something, I will seek what I need to satisfy that doubt.

What I do find of interest in your quote, is the nonuse of solid shot.

BOSTON wrote:

Hancock the Superb wrote:

I thought it was pretty well known that rifled artillery has a terrible time firing cannister, because it was shot out in a spiral, condesning the span of the balls.

That's the reason why canister might not have been in caissons of rifled batterys at GB and other engagements in 1863.

In the "For What Its Worth" department, a recent article in the Field Artillery Journal, titled: "Three men of Gettysburg: a Study in Civil War Battery Command - Civil War" details the weapons of the 13th New York Battery:

"Dilger's battery of six 12-pounder Napoleons fired in support of the XI Corps' Third Division as it opposed Robert Rodes' attack. His gunners quickly silenced one Confederate battery and then continued to fire in support of the surrounding Union infantry. (3) When newly arrived Confederate rifled guns resumed counterbattery fire, Dilger called for and received an attachment of four Union 3-inch rifles (William Wheeler's 13th New York Battery)."

From the Gettysburg report of Lt. William Wheeler, 13th Independent Battery - NY Light Artillery, to Maj. T. W. Osborn, Chief of Artillery, Eleventh Corps:

"At about 5:30 p.m. (2 July 1863) my ammunition became exhausted (as I had lost 200 rounds in the caissons that broke down), and you sent another battery to relieve me. I took my battery to the Artillery Reserve train, and filled up with percussion and canister, which was the only 3-inch ammunition on hand."

The next day, Lt. Wheeler notes in his report: "During the morning of July 3, I lay in reserve behind Cemetery Hill. During the heavy cannonade from 1 to 3 p.m., I lost some horses, but fortunately no men.

At about 4 p.m. I received an order from you to go to assist the Second Corps, upon which a very heavy attack was being made. I immediately reported to General Hancock, who showed me my position. Upon coming into battery, I found the enemy not more than 400 yards off, marching in heavy column by a flank to attack Pettit's battery, which was on my right and somewhat in advance of me. This gave me a fine opportunity to enfilade their column with canister, which threw them into great disorder, and brought them to a halt three times. The charge was finally repulsed, and most of the enemy taken prisoners. I then returned to the corps at Cemetery Hill."

In his after-action report, Lt. Wheeler noted: "Eight hundred and fifty rounds of ammunition were expended."

Hope all find this contemporary account of rifled artillery using canister during Gettysburg to be of some interest.

J

J

It looks like the scale of truth and justice are tilting to the use of rifled cannister at GB. Nonetheless, before I cave in on the subject, I do have sources that could help nail the cannister issue down. I'm kicking myself in the butt for not saving the article that goes contrary to what most think. It's been a learning experience either way it goes.

BOSTON

Another page from the 'GBurg Companion' breaks down the amount of ammunition held by each gun:

Rifled Cannon (3-Inch Ordnance Rifles, Parrot Guns, James Rifles)

Holdings Per Limber Chest..................... 5 fixed and Unfixed Canister Rounds
Holdings per Cannon (4 chests).............. 20 fixed and unfixed canister rounds
Holdings Per Battery................................120 fixed and unfixed canister rounds
Army Holdings.........................................4,280 fixed and unfixed canister rounds

Armchair General wrote:

Another page from the 'GBurg Companion' breaks down the amount of ammunition held by each gun:

Rifled Cannon (3-Inch Ordnance Rifles, Parrot Guns, James Rifles)

Holdings Per Limber Chest..................... 5 fixed and Unfixed Canister Rounds
Holdings per Cannon (4 chests).............. 20 fixed and unfixed canister rounds
Holdings Per Battery................................120 fixed and unfixed canister rounds
Army Holdings.........................................4,280 fixed and unfixed canister rounds

I WONDER WHAT THEY MEAN BY FIXED AND UNFIXED? :dry:

BOSTON wrote:

J

It looks like the scale of truth and justice are tilting to the use of rifled cannister at GB. Nonetheless, before I cave in on the subject, I do have sources that could help nail the cannister issue down. I'm kicking myself in the butt for not saving the article that goes contrary to what most think. It's been a learning experience either way it goes.

BOSTON

I suspect there are obvious exceptions to everything. Nevertheless, it is difficult to refute the contemporary reports of the participants! I find Wheeler's statement as to what was available in the "Reserve Train," coupled with the number of rounds his 4-gun battery fired during the campaign, even more compelling when evaluating the usage of canister by rifled guns. Without further documentation, I still must believe that it would only be the rare anomaly that rifle batteries did not carry the prescribed ammunition as stated in Army Regulations.

Contemporary reports on the issuance of canister are undoubtedly available, especially for the Federals, in the OR's. However, as I look at the volumes stacked against my walls, I find it be a daunting task. For example, in the 1200+ page index, references to New York troops begin on page 701 and continue through page 705. As we narrow down New York to "Artillery, Light - Batteries," Regiments and independent batteries, we find there are over 40 batteries. Each battery has several volume numbers. For example, one would find references to the 13 NY Light Artillery (Wheeler's Battery at GB) in volumes 12,21,25,27,29,31,32,38,39,44,45, and 49 of Series I. Then one must go to each volume and find the specific pages for that battery. (Perhaps, some enterprising grad student will seize upon this topic as a possible dissertation hypothesis!)

Of course one would narrow the search by checking resouces of those artillery units that fought at Gettysburg such as Downey's "Guns at Gettysburg." Then, one would only have to look at a few dozen batteries in the hopes of finding reports as clearly unequivocal as Lt. Wheeler's.

Naturally, I would be greatly interested in the article to which you refer. However, without contemporary documentation, the professional historian in me remains skeptical. Keep looking...

J

Read that Meade left battery(s) at Westminister(MD ?) that used a 4.+ inch rounds, that he wished had brought up for the battle.

BOSTON wrote:

Armchair General wrote:

Another page from the 'GBurg Companion' breaks down the amount of ammunition held by each gun:

Rifled Cannon (3-Inch Ordnance Rifles, Parrot Guns, James Rifles)

Holdings Per Limber Chest..................... 5 fixed and Unfixed Canister Rounds
Holdings per Cannon (4 chests).............. 20 fixed and unfixed canister rounds
Holdings Per Battery................................120 fixed and unfixed canister rounds
Army Holdings.........................................4,280 fixed and unfixed canister rounds

I WONDER WHAT THEY MEAN BY FIXED AND UNFIXED? :dry:

The difference of a fixed and unfixed artillery round is:

A fixed round has everything in a complete 'package'. In this case, the canister round would be attached to the powder bag and the whole thing would be rammed down in one step.

An unfixed round is two separate things; the powder bag and the canister round. Each would be loaded separately, first obviously the powder followed by the actual round.

BOSTON wrote:

Armchair General wrote:

Another page from the 'GBurg Companion' breaks down the amount of ammunition held by each gun:

Rifled Cannon (3-Inch Ordnance Rifles, Parrot Guns, James Rifles)

Holdings Per Limber Chest..................... 5 fixed and Unfixed Canister Rounds
Holdings per Cannon (4 chests).............. 20 fixed and unfixed canister rounds
Holdings Per Battery................................120 fixed and unfixed canister rounds
Army Holdings.........................................4,280 fixed and unfixed canister rounds

I WONDER WHAT THEY MEAN BY FIXED AND UNFIXED? :dry:

Thanks Armchair General for the 3-Inch Rifle canister "holdings."

Boston, in the 1862 Ordnance Manual, Fixed Ammuniton is described on page 277 and includes the filling of powder bags and "fixing" to the "Sabot". If I interpret the manual correctly (and I have been known to error), the archaic language indicates when the "shot" is attached to the sabot and powder bag, it is "fixed." This would imply that if the sabon/powder bag were not attached to the "shot, shell, etc." it was not "fixed."

The manual goes on to say (page 278):

"Cannisters for Field-Guns are fixed in the same manner as shot, except that the first tie is made in the upper groove of the sabot; the cylinder is tied in the lower groove. The caps must be cut somewhat shorter than those for shot-cartridges."

As I look at some of the plates showing various limber chests packed with ammunition, it appears that some show powder bags "unfixed" but am not sure what/why! I do not like to speculate, but do wonder if unfixed simply means that the powder bag/sabot were not always attached to the canister round itself? It would certainly ease the loading of double or triple canister, although I have read contemporary accounts saying that the powder bags were "knocked off" the canister round by striking the round against the wheel (watch out for sparks!). Just an uneducated guess.

J

Well, Boston, let's see if this adds any weight to the discussion! :laugh:

From Lieutenant Colonel Frederick Fuger’s “brief” Military History of nearly 44 years of service in the 4th Regiment of Artillery, U.S. Army. Fuger was the First Sgt. of perhaps the most famous artillery battery at Gettysburg...Cushing's Battery.

From his history: "About 2:30pm, the order cease firing, was given, followed by a similar course on the part of the enemy. The artillery duel had ended and all our ammunition except the canister had been expended. General Webb, of Hancock’s Corps, at this time came up to where Lieutenant Cushing was standing, and said, “Cushing it is my opinion that the Confederate Infantry will now advance”. Cushing replied, “I had then better bring my guns right to the stone wall and bring all my canister along side each piece”. General Webb replied, “All right, do so”.

"The command was then given, and the six guns were brought by hand to the stone wall, leaving room enough for number 1 and number 2 to work. All the canister was piled up in the rear of each number 2. In doing this, we were obliged to take a close interval say, about 10 yards (the usual interval being about 14 yards). This was caused by some obstruction to our left. On our right was a stone wall at right angles with the other; this same position is now known as the “Bloody
Angle”.

"The Confederate Infantry, they saw about 16,000 strong, now began their advance. They were the best troops in Lee’s army, namely Pickett’s Division, consisting of three brigades, Garnett’s, Kemper’s and Armistead’s in the center supported on the leaf by General Heth’s Division and on the right by General Anderson’s.

"Kemper was on the right, Garnett in the center and Armistead on the left, marching in close order with measured steps, as if on parade. They moved toward us solidly and deliberately, and when they were within 400 yards, Battery “A” began firing at them with single charges of canister, mowing down gaps in their lines which appeard to me the front of a company, this they filled up and still came on.

"About this time Lieutenant Cushing was wounded in the right shoulder and a few seconds after in the abdomen, a terribly severe and painful wound. He called out, “Fuger, stand by me, and impart my orders to the Battery”, but he soon became
faint and suffered frightfully. I wanted to have him taken to the rear, but he refused , declaring he would stay right here and fight it out, or die in the attempt. When the enemy were with 200 yards double and treble charges were fired, opening immense gaps in their lines. Lieutenant Milne, a volunteer officer and belonging to the 1st Rhode Island Regiment attached to our Battery July 1st 1863 and commanding the right half of our Battery was killed about this time. When the enemy had approached within 150 yards, Lieutenant Cushing was shot in the mouth and was instantly killed. I was standing on his right and a little in advance of him, when I saw him fall forward, I caught him in my arms, and ordered
several men to carry his body to the rear.

"This placed me in command of the Battery, and I shouted to the men to obey my orders. We continued to fire double and treble charges of our canister, but owing to the dense smoke, could not see very far to the front. At this moment to my utter amazement, I saw General Armistead leap over the stone wall with a number of his troops, landing right in the middle of our Battery. I shouted to my devoted cannoneers and drivers, who had no longer any horses, to stand their ground,
which they heroically did, fighting hand to hand with hand spikes, pistols, sabers, ramrods and with help of Webb’s Pennsylvania Brigade and that gallant Brigade of Vermonters commanded by that gallant General Stannard coming up
our left flank; Pickett’s charge collapsed. No one of the daring party who came over the stone wall ever returned, they were either killed, wounded or taken prisoners. Armistead fell mortally wounded but a few yard from where Cushing his young and gallant adversary, gave up his life."

An interesting first-person account that I imagine has been quoted dozens of times. As I recall, a more detailed account of Cushing's second wound indicated he was "wounded" in the testicles.

Hope all find this interesting.

J