True Distances - Preface to 'True Ground'

[garyknowz]

I've had this question for a while. You folks have likely long addressed it, but most of the time, I can't follow what you guys are saying anyway when modding. :S

What would be the accurate length of a 200 man deployed front, and how to scale is that on the terrain? Did ya'll have to make adjustments for playability or map size constraints, or is it pretty accurate?

Thanks folks! Gary K.

[RebBugler]

I've had this question for a while. You folks have likely long addressed it, but most of the time, I can't follow what you guys are saying anyway when modding. :S

What would be the accurate length of a 200 man deployed front, and how to scale is that on the terrain? Did ya'll have to make adjustments for playability or map size constraints, or is it pretty accurate?

Thanks folks! Gary K.

Since I screwed up initially with this mod's development I had to read this thread over again to sort it out, so, I understand your confusion. Only I know what it says.

As to your question, this mod doesn't consider unit widths. This mod establishes true map distances and battle distances. The details of how these distances were established are explained in posts 1 and 7.

Your question of unit width as related to terrain is pertinent when scaling is applied. This was a huge consideration as the SOWGB game was developed, and the maps were adjusted for four to one troop scaling...The width of regiments being the key consideration.

Thanks for your Interest

[Davinci]

"Reb" How is everything going!

Are you still working on this "Project" or have you moved on to something else?

Usually when someone gets a "New Computer" they tend to start playing another game that wouldn't play on the older Computer.

davinci

[Palyarmerc]

I had no clue as to what Devils Den 'True Ground' amounted to. I knew I had Devils Den, so installed this, compared maps, and could see no difference.
A day later I boot up Fredericksburg and my soldiers had shrunk. However, the map did look more expansive, true to size if you like. Took me 5 minutes to work out the True Ground Mod was the cause.

But now worry set in...what if I'd blundered...
When I started work on Fredsburg, I used the Kansas Fall map as a template. Lstudio set the default for this map at 256,512 but other maps I eventually looked at were 512,512

At one point I was convinced the TC2M Fredericksburg was bigger than the one I'd created. (That is, 512,512 as opposed to my 256,512) which would have made any attempt at Scenario conversion impossible (it mostly is for various reasons though; the 90 degree co-ordinate mismatch; csv's packed in an .mmg file to name but 2)

So I quickly knocked up a '512' variation and added it to the download (except all the ambient sounds and objective locations are now at the wrong co-ordinates, more work, but I'll skip that)

512,512 Lstudio Terrain expands the map scale, which is partly good, since anything beyond Brigade sized battles would otherwise be virtually impossible.
The 512 variation helps to enable Corp vs Corp sized battles, else similarly, I'd need to down-scale all the buidlings and fences to the True Ground idea.

Some more discussion on this is certainly welcomed. In all, a worthwhile project I think.
Map making / modifications need a set rules for correct scale, especially regards enabling realistic battles. Not that I've played much Scourge of War, having too much fun with the SDK

[RebBugler]

Hey D, good hearing from you. Yeah, still on this quest, and the new computer has literally made it possible with the performance demands of SR1 development. Have no desire to seek out new games, modding SOW games fulfills my entertainment needs just fine, not to mention distracting my mind away from yet another year of poor showings of the football teams I follow, the Hogs and Dallas.

'True Ground SR1, Scenarios & OOBs' is due to be released before Christmas. I'm presently working on the fourth scenario for this release and plan for at least one more. Thereafter I plan on releasing more scenarios as they are produced. I'm really pleased at the way the SOW engine is handling SR1 play, far far better than that hack-job attempt at SR1 play ten years ago with the TC2M engine.

Still no word from Crikey regarding the 'True Ground Devil's Den Map' upgrade. Hopefully he'll chime in soon regarding any progress with that map.

[Davinci]

"Jumping Topic"

So I quickly knocked up a '512' variation and added it to the download (except all the ambient sounds and objective locations are now at the wrong co-ordinates, more work, but I'll skip that)

If you are referring to the "Tile" Edit - Correct, changing this number has increased the size of the Map, and by doing so, has also changed all of the coordinates from the previous settings.

Basically, you just doubled the size of the map. So any object that was on the map before this change will have to be replaced or placed at the new coordinates.

davinci

[Davinci]

'True Ground SR1, Scenarios & OOBs' is due to be released before Christmas. I'm presently working on the fourth scenario for this release and plan for at least one more. Thereafter I plan on releasing more scenarios as they are produced. I'm really pleased at the way the SOW engine is handling SR1 play, far far better than that hack-job attempt at SR1 play ten years ago with the TC2M engine.

So, Can you place approximately 2600 men standing shoulder to shoulder within a mile, or have you had the time to test that ?

davinci

[RebBugler]

'True Ground SR1, Scenarios & OOBs' is due to be released before Christmas. I'm presently working on the fourth scenario for this release and plan for at least one more. Thereafter I plan on releasing more scenarios as they are produced. I'm really pleased at the way the SOW engine is handling SR1 play, far far better than that hack-job attempt at SR1 play ten years ago with the TC2M engine.

So, Can you place approximately 2600 men standing shoulder to shoulder within a mile, or have you had the time to test that ?

davinci

Ha, won't be testing that. Besides, as explained earlier in this thread, 'True Ground' isn't perfect, but close enough for smoothbores.

[Davinci]

Ha, won't be testing that. Besides, as explained earlier in this thread, 'True Ground' isn't perfect, but close enough for smoothbores.

Hmm, I would say that I might have the time to test it but "Truth be Told", the next "Steam Sale" is rumored to be on the 19th of this month and I plan on getting the SOWWL game at a discounted price and convert it into a Civil War game.

That should keep Me busy for quite a while, especially since I have zero knowledge in C++ Programming.

davinci

[RebBugler]

I had no clue as to what Devils Den 'True Ground' amounted to. I knew I had Devils Den, so installed this, compared maps, and could see no difference.
A day later I boot up Fredericksburg and my soldiers had shrunk. However, the map did look more expansive, true to size if you like. Took me 5 minutes to work out the True Ground Mod was the cause.

But now worry set in...what if I'd blundered...
When I started work on Fredsburg, I used the Kansas Fall map as a template. Lstudio set the default for this map at 256,512 but other maps I eventually looked at were 512,512

At one point I was convinced the TC2M Fredericksburg was bigger than the one I'd created. (That is, 512,512 as opposed to my 256,512) which would have made any attempt at Scenario conversion impossible (it mostly is for various reasons though; the 90 degree co-ordinate mismatch; csv's packed in an .mmg file to name but 2)

So I quickly knocked up a '512' variation and added it to the download (except all the ambient sounds and objective locations are now at the wrong co-ordinates, more work, but I'll skip that)

512,512 Lstudio Terrain expands the map scale, which is partly good, since anything beyond Brigade sized battles would otherwise be virtually impossible.
The 512 variation helps to enable Corp vs Corp sized battles, else similarly, I'd need to down-scale all the buidlings and fences to the True Ground idea.

Some more discussion on this is certainly welcomed. In all, a worthwhile project I think.
Map making / modifications need a set rules for correct scale, especially regards enabling realistic battles. Not that I've played much Scourge of War, having too much fun with the SDK

Nice post, bumped it up since it got buried before much discussion. As far as I know, I'm the only modder that's messed with map scaling. Different sized maps are common, and all are scaled for 4:1 soldiers to sprites ratio, so I'm not sure why you're suggesting a set of rules governing map scaling.

Most maps made available in recent years by modders tend to be 5 mile maps or greater. I've revisited the 2.5 mile maps because they handle SR1 (1:1) performance demands best. Obviously, the bigger the map, the greater the demand on performance. Also, the 2.5 mile Kansas map is perfect for testing and establishing true distances and movement speeds with its flat and sparse terrain characteristics.

Welcome to SOW modding, looking forward to your contributions.