Steam: Greenlight

[redcoat]

if steam remains an option i.e you can choose to have a steam free version of the game then have at it.
what you need to understand however is that here in the uk internet is provided to your home in a number of ways.if you happen to be lucky enough to have cable installed then dl speeds can be very fast.
if you are like me and a lot of others then your internet speed is governed by your local exchange then my dl speed is 1mps and thats on a good day.
this makes steam almost unuseable.recently my internet speed has been raised to a dizzying 5mps!
you may not see the complaints about steam but i can assure you they exist.

a very large rts maker recently moved its games to steam,the complaints on its forums were massive and at one point all the data on the site relating to these complaints got so large that suddenly they were 'lost' due to an 'error'!

i can see why a game developer would want the mass market steam seems to offer,i simply beg you to consider the ramifications of tieing your colours to so huge a mast.

if you will continue to offer those of us whos use of steam is curtailed merely by where they happen to live the option of a steam free version of this game ive come to love so much,then i and the others i have brought into the fold will continue to purchase this game.

were sowg to become steam only,with its ridiculous must be online to sign in and all the rest of the inconvenience it brings,then im afraid lifes too short to be spending hard earned money on that! cheers

[Monty]

if steam remains an option i.e you can choose to have a steam free version of the game then have at it.
what you need to understand however is that here in the uk internet is provided to your home in a number of ways.if you happen to be lucky enough to have cable installed then dl speeds can be very fast.
if you are like me and a lot of others then your internet speed is governed by your local exchange then my dl speed is 1mps and thats on a good day.
this makes steam almost unuseable.

I don't understand your issue. As a UK resident who until recently had a ~2mbps connection on a good day, I've never encountered any difficulties with Steam. As well as being slow, my connection might cut out for days on end, but I never encountered any difficulties playing Steam games offline. What, exactly, was the problem you encountered?

My view of Steam (and the view of everyone I know) is that's just plain wonderful. It is the most consumer-friendly service out there and seems to be keyed directly to what the consumer wants and needs. It's DRM how it should be done:

1) No need to play with a disk
2) Redownload the game whenever you want
3) No need to be online to play
4) No system harming DRM tool

Generally speaking, I really, really like Steam. I like it so much that every game I own (including SoW), I add to Steam if possible to take full use of the Steam overlay. I've even taken to buying Steam versions of games I own when the disks I have encounter problems either due to neglect or the onward march of progress.

That said, there remain concerns that are still to be addressed. Chief among them is the idea that we aren't purchasing games, but rather the license to play games, a license that may eventually be revoked. This isn't an issue with Steam, however, but an issue as old as the EULA and one that applies to all content delivery systems. Thankfully, consumer law is slowly addressing this issue and will inevitably consign this fiction to the dustbin.

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Monty, kind of sad to burst your bubble but that is what Steam is, it is a full time, 24 hours 7 days a week DRM package. It is so far much more of a DRM product than the less intrusive serial activation that is already in place for SOW. I can't believe that people still think that Steam is not DRM... Interesting.

It's up to NSD for this, and it's nice to see that we are having this discussion.

Believe me Steam is not as easy as people think it is. Man you have to read the posts to get a better understanding on how foul steam actually is, and how many problems people have with it. I have seen time, and time again people being told to go out, and purchase a game again because their serial was banned accidentally (which happens more than you may think).

Take ARMA2. I have the retail version of the game, not the Steam version. I have never come across any problems with my copy of this game, but you go to the steam version of ARMA2, and you will see too many complaints about how steam is not updating their game to the latest versions, and receiving corrupt data packs which requires you to uninstall Steam itself in the worst situations to do something that would only require of a retail version to uninstall, and re-install the game to fix.

I was reading some posts on steam about ARMA2 the other day, and I felt really sad for those people who were told to buy another copy of the game because something went bad... I mean come on? How many copies does someone need to buy just to play a game?

Oh well, I only hope that if NSD walks down this path they will keep two styles, the retail, and a Steam version. I am a big supporter of NSD, and SOW, but if Steam comes into the picture I will have to opt out from purchasing any more from NSD. I'm not saying this to be mean or hurtful, it's just I have had my fill of Steam, and Steam like DRM, and I just can't do it.

But that is up to all of you to decide. I am really anxious to find out.

Update: Just to mention one more thing here. If, and when you go with Steam, you are allowing Steam/Valve the opportunity to manipulate your company's reputation.

Cheers.

[Monty]

Monty, kind of sad to burst your bubble but that is what Steam is, it is a full time, 24 hours 7 days a week DRM package. It is so far much more of a DRM product than the less intrusive serial activation that is already in place for SOW. I can't believe that people still think that Steam is not DRM... Interesting.

I'm waiting for the bubble bursting part. You know what a CD is for a game that requires it be in the drive to play? It's a 24 hours, 7 days a week DRM package.

The issue with DRM has never been about its right to exist. All sensible people understand that intellectual property must be protected and DRM should exist. The question has been what kind of DRM should be endured. Steam's DRM operates effectively, quietly and without intrusion. It is less of a hassle than having to shove a disk in a drive to play a game and it is far less of a hassle than using NSD's code unlock.

No disrespect to NSD (who reacted far quicker than one could have hoped) but one of our MP games was put off because one of our number made a mistake reinstalling his copy and had to wait for the game to be unlocked by Norb. I myself fell afoul of the DRM system and had to request the game be unlocked for me. I have never experienced any such problems with Steam and I know of no-one else who has.

Finally, as an avid ArmA II player with friends and acquaintances who own Steam ArmAII, I don't recognise any of the problems you cite. Sure, it may take a little longer for Steam ArmAII to be updated, but that's understandable and no big deal.

[Hancock the Superb]

From an outsider's perspective (one who doesn't know what steam is), I think you people are missing the real problem. The question is whether or not SOW's purchase system is efficient for the user.

The minor related question is how to attract more people to the game. To answer that one, I say, do what you can, but don't extend into other peoples' territory. All of us can promote the game individually, but it is up to the company to decide how to market the game. I'm sure Norb has thought of steam and declined it for his own reasons. It is not up to us to debate how his company operates. We are not shareholders, we are merely customers.

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Monty, kind of sad to burst your bubble but that is what Steam is, it is a full time, 24 hours 7 days a week DRM package. It is so far much more of a DRM product than the less intrusive serial activation that is already in place for SOW. I can't believe that people still think that Steam is not DRM... Interesting.

I'm waiting for the bubble bursting part. You know what a CD is for a game that requires it be in the drive to play? It's a 24 hours, 7 days a week DRM package.

The issue with DRM has never been about its right to exist. All sensible people understand that intellectual property must be protected and DRM should exist. The question has been what kind of DRM should be endured. Steam's DRM operates effectively, quietly and without intrusion. It is less of a hassle than having to shove a disk in a drive to play a game and it is far less of a hassle than using NSD's code unlock.

No disrespect to NSD (who reacted far quicker than one could have hoped) but one of our MP games was put off because one of our number made a mistake reinstalling his copy and had to wait for the game to be unlocked by Norb. I myself fell afoul of the DRM system and had to request the game be unlocked for me. I have never experienced any such problems with Steam and I know of no-one else who has.

Finally, as an avid ArmA II player with friends and acquaintances who own Steam ArmAII, I don't recognise any of the problems you cite. Sure, it may take a little longer for Steam ArmAII to be updated, but that's understandable and no big deal.

What you say is true. It's based on what we each have experienced with Steam, and other DRM schemes put in place. There will be those who have never had a problem, and there are those who have nothing but problems.

Like you mentioned, it all comes down to what we as individuals will put up with. If Steam is your cup of joe then by all means enjoy yourself, and I really hope you never have any problems.

If a person never has a problem with Steam, there would be no point in visiting the forums area. Like most people, you only read the forums if you are experiencing a problem with either Steam, or the game itself (outside of course looking for mods to expand their gaming experience), other than that I don't expect folks to travel through all the posts on all the gaming forums out there searching for the good, bad, and the ugly.

Oh one more thing, I am talking reputation Monty, and Steam's reputation is not all that good.

Thanks for the response Monty, take care.

[Monty]

4.5m Steam users online over the past 48hrs.

All the best.


This thread should either be closed or moved, I think its served its purpose of making NSD aware of the new Steam: Greenlight system.

[redcoat]

why? because someones not agreeing with you?
however i agree that if the op's question has been answered then we should all move on before this decends into the usual believer\non believer wars ive seen in so many other forums.
i think this forum is far tooinformative and intelligent for that crap! cheers

[Saddletank]

Personal opinion and experience of Steam aside, which I think are entirely irrelevant to the subject matter, I do think Steam is an excellent vehicle for a developer to get his product noticed. However as one pertinent post above highlighted, SoW isn't available via Steam and therefore we should conclude that NSD is not interested, for their own reasons, whatever those may be (and its not for us to second guess them), in not having SoW available via Steam.

I have a personal view on Steam but this isn't the thread to give it - it's simply not relevant to the discussion.

[Garnier]

This is why SOW is not on steam currently. Hopefully this can change someday.

And as a general remark -- terrible reputation on a forum that people would likely only visit if they are having problems, for a product with, as Monty pointed out, 4.5 million users online within the last two days, is to be expected.

Compare that to the number of SOW players using SOW in the last two days (who knows what the number is, my high estimate is maybe a few hundred), look at the number of complaints here, and multiply by twenty thousand. It would be an ugly forum -- doesn't mean the product is bad.