A newby and a question on control of units with HITs

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apoll
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A newby and a question on control of units with HITs

Post by apoll »

Hi, really trying to get into this simulation. I like realism so naturally I'm using HITs and trying to control everything from the saddle. This is REALLY hard. I'm used to playing th3e Total War series where I can zoom up and see everything. Then it is a realtively simple matter of arranging lines of troops on the ground and positioning artillery. With SoW HITs, I find it exceptionally hard to line my troops up, and to get the artillery to turn up at the right spot I have desiginated for them. Take, for example, the sandbox scenario I was playing: a hunt them down engagement. I had my division follow me along the rods...that works fine...I put them in a valley to wait while I scouted over the next ridge. Yikes! The Union army was marching just the other side of that ridge and when they saw me, turned to start heading toward me, heading toward the top of the ridge. I galloped back and frantically tried to set up my army on the high ground of the ridge top, or at least just under the ridge top so I could meet them. What worked in the calm and ordered environment of the flat parade ground (I practicesd moving my units around on the flat before I set off to find the enemy just to get a sense of what hapens and what commands to use to get the men to move.) now didn't seem to work at all. I was all over the place...well, my troops where, I sent frantic messages for my artillery to come up and position themnselves at the right flank of a bridage of infantry in line...BUT THEY WOULD NOT MOVE! I cantered back to see what the problem was and they were just sitting there at the back of the troops doing nothing...not in contact...scratching their @!#$es. Nothing I saidf would mogve them., I used 'no orders' first before ordering them to move...nothing worked. Then I tried to line my brigades up in a relatively straight line, as the enemy was fanning out in front with his brigades: I would be outflanked before long. Well, I could not actually get a sense of where my line was nor where the units would go after I sent them the orders. Some were facing left, some right...most were isolated and attempted to take on the enemy ion isolated little regiments rather than a brigade whole. The brigade commanders were, I found for the most part, not very good. They simply wold not align the majority of their troops to the enemy line in front, prefering to take on enemy regiments and lines with their own regiments...ignoring a flanking unit or the fact that their lead regiment all out front by itself was at right angles to the main union line. One even had a regiment with its back to the union line! What a mess. And I simply could not afford to micro manage every ubits that I saw doing something stupid. Is it really that hard? If it was, I am wondering how anyone did anything on such a battle field. How do I get my artillery to go where I want it? Do I TC it and do it that way? Why wouldn't it move from the back of the troops? But the biggest problem is understanding the totality of your division in space terms: where do I need to place my units to get a single straight line? How can I visualise this? I realise it is cheating to zoom up into the air Total War style, and do it that way...but at the present, I am simply failing at organising my division even half competently by using the HITs method. (And I have to say, the sense of panic is real when one sees the enemy deploying in front and you are frantically trying to get your own units lined our correctly...WITHOUT huge gaps in the line or stupidly placed far from the action. This really is NOT easy. I'm after any tips..and I have scoured the site for the tactical guides. Is it simply a matter of practising more on the flat with units to really get it down pat?

Advice much appreciated, as I will NEVER come close to beating the AI if I can't get this sorted out.

apoll :unsure:
Garnier
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Re: A newby and a question on control of units with HITs

Post by Garnier »

- Try using free camera (not HITS) until you are familiar with how to give orders.

- Getting a straight solid line isn't easy at first since you have to judge how wide each regiment is to know where to place them.

- Use the TC button on regiments and then they'll follow your orders.

- For artillery, it's easiest to use TC on the battery commander, then give him a move order, then click the battery formation button to get the guns to move.
Play Scourge of War Multiplayer! www.sowmp.com
Also try the singleplayer carryover campaign
apoll
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Re: A newby and a question on control of units with HITs

Post by apoll »

Garnier, thanks for the tips. I have read your very useful tips throughout this forum. I hear what you are saying re HITs...but one of the reasons I am in this mess is getting too used to the cheating zoomed out view. I am really determined to master the HITs, as it is the best experience I've ever had with a war game. But I shall follow your advice...and I shall do some more square bashing so I understand the fontages and can guestimate them.

apoll
con20or
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Re: A newby and a question on control of units with HITs

Post by con20or »

Hi Apoll,

Glad youre liking HITS, for me it's the best part of the game.

I can just imagine the scene, I've had some pretty frantic moments myself :)

Forming a line is relatively easy, but be warned that if you order your troops to form up on a general, they form up ON THAT GENERAL, not his troops. So if he is not TC'd, but standing off a little ways inspecting something, in a different orienation to his unit, then other units will not form up correctly on him.

So your options are,

1. TC the general - which isn't really a good idea for HITS, because he will be waiting for orders from you all the time, when you probably wont be able to see him.

2. Give form up orders on the flank regiments in a battle formation, ie, identify the right hand regiment, give the order to form up on that.

3. Place your general sprite where the center will be, then give orders to one brigade to form up to your left, one to your right, and one to your rear. But make sure you dont move or turn until they receive those couriers.

And dont be afraid to use the toolbar for commands, if your playing at the high courier level you can place troops while maintaining realism.

Artillery in HITS are a tricky one to master, but you say you already use the 'no orders' command, which is pretty important, so I would say check through the HITS guide and some of the other posts in the HITS section for some more tips :)
Last edited by con20or on Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blaugrana
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Re: A newby and a question on control of units with HITs

Post by Blaugrana »

Apoll

If it's any consolation, your description of the panic and confusion caused by HITS perfectly summarises my feelings too!

I have, for the time being, set couriers to 'Brigade' so that all orders go by courier, but am flying the camera around and removing trees quite a lot. This does help.

I also have spent some time on a sandbox battlefield doing 'manoevres' to get a feel for the different infantry formations.

As con20or says, if you order units to move to you (or to your flank, rear, whatever) you then mustn't dash off somewhere else. Forgetting this has led some of my divisions to march off in a completely different direction to that I intended.

I look forward to hearing how it goes.
Marching Thru Georgia
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Re: A newby and a question on control of units with HITs

Post by Marching Thru Georgia »

apoll wrote:
I am wondering how anyone did anything on such a battle field. How do I get my artillery to go where I want it? Do I TC it and do it that way? Why wouldn't it move from the back of the troops? But the biggest problem is understanding the totality of your division in space terms: where do I need to place my units to get a single straight line? How can I visualise this? I realise it is cheating to zoom up into the air Total War style, and do it that way...but at the present, I am simply failing at organising my division even half competently by using the HITs method. (And I have to say, the sense of panic is real when one sees the enemy deploying in front and you are frantically trying to get your own units lined our correctly...WITHOUT huge gaps in the line or stupidly placed far from the action. This really is NOT easy.
Well you made a perfect mess of things didn't you. There will be a board of inquiry convened soon over your performance in that battle. :laugh: HITS is not easy. I've suffered your experience many times. Read the post at the top of this section on HITS tips and ideas. One of the key duties of a commander is always anticipate disaster. Your error was in not deploying your men on good defensible ground before you went scouting. They were stuck in a valley, not properly arranged. When the enemy showed up, your brigade commanders began to deploy, but it was too late. It's rare to catch the AI in the midst of deploying, but when you do, it becomes a turkey shoot.
When the enemy comes into view, the character of your subordinates becomes important. They have very human-like behavior. If they are the cautious type, it will take a while before they come up with a plan to deploy their troops. It definitely won't be at the pace you would like. If they are audacious, they will advance against all odds in an almost reckless fashion. They also base their behavior on the stance you gave them. Did you tell them to hold? If so, they won't move very quickly and may explain some of what you saw.

Forget about nice straight lines with no gaps, especially in a meeting engagement. They never happened in the 19th century and they won't happen in SOW. Those paintings of famous battles where everyone is aligned very neatly is just that, a pretty picture.

The Hunt Them Down sandbox game is the hardest scenario to play in HITS. It will almost always result in a meeting engagement so prior planning is critical. Here is how I do it. Your troops always start near the edge of the map. The enemy will most likely be opposite you at the other edge. Norb made this aspect too predictable. I never try to move my men halfway across the map in one shot. Usually, I will pick a spot ~1/3 of the way where the ground will give good defensive possibilities if the enemy shows up sooner than expected. You have to use the map to make that judgement. Then I send my brigades to points along my imaginary defensive line where they can deploy in double line formation with some gap between them, but within close supporting distance of each other. Only repeated play can tell you how to do that. I will usually put my arty batteries in the gaps between my brigades. Normally I give all my units a hold stance for this first maneuver. I want to try to assemble my entire force before committing to some action. Normally this first movement will occur without mishap. Now I am ready to decide on a battle plan. If the enemy is coming into view, I may let him come to me and defend my position. I then will slightly rearrange my troops to meet the axis of advance, set up my reserve brigade(s) and see how the enemy deploys. Once the enemy begins to engage, I will issue a defend stance to my front line brigades. Their commanders will start moving their men as they think proper. Learn to trust your subordinates, most of them are very good.

I always try to be in a position to fight a battle with all my troops deployed and mutually supporting one another. The enemy AI is far too good to just send my men off marching down some road and hoping they will be able to take care of things while I try to sort the mess out. Welcome to the game and good luck. :)
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
apoll
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Re: A newby and a question on control of units with HITs

Post by apoll »

Well yes. A board of enquiry would be the least I would get after my performance. I'd be scrubbing potatoes for a whole year and would certainly become the 'subaltern's friend'with all the extra duty officers I would be doing! Sigh. All good advicve from everyone and I shall read, consider and practice. I am getting better I think. I am still being defeated...but now at least the enemy is losing a lot of men in the process. I'll keep at it. Very addictive game!

apoll
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