What would have been so shameful in Battle?

[Armchair General]

Hi.

I must be coward then, because if I had a choice to save a human beings life, and protect the platoons colors I would grab the other person, and carry them out of there, to damn with the colors because I think I would rather die for another human being than for a damn old flag. The flag can be replaced, a human beings life cannot.

Mind you like you said if the flag bearer left it behind because he forgot, that's a totally different matter, and being reprimanded is proper.

Later!

Think of it not only with an ACW mentality, but a Napoleonic one too. In the Napoleonic wars, Napoleon himself presented every regiment of the line with a standard Eagle that had the regiment's flag on it. Usually the regiments left the flags at warehouses in France and marched to battle only with the eagle. Using attack columns, the eagles would mark the center of the regiment, with hundreds of men in front of the bearer. If anyone tried to seize an eagle, they first had to chop through those ranks; everyone was more than willing to die for the eagle, because Napoleon himself presented it. The grognards of the French army would most certainly forsake friends before an eagle.

[rclark14]

Hi, Battle of Pea Ridge- Indian soldiers scalped some Yanks and the media blew it out of proportion- this was on the History Channel- Civil War of the west- great great show

[SouthernSteel]

either way, they were cleared some time later: http://www.couchgenweb.com/civilwar/hartsbat.html

"According to William Shea and Earl Hess in "Pea Ridge: Civil War Campaign in the West," on the second day of the battle Gen. Van Dorn ordered Hart's Battery and Clark's Missouri Battery from reserve into the front line. Hart's Battery arrived first and unlimbered but came under converging fire from twenty-one Federal guns. His men, who were green and untried, became unnerved by the enemy fire and within minutes limbered to the rear, probably without firing a shot. On reaching Elkhorn Tavern, Hart complained to Van Dorn that the fire had been too hot for them. In anger Van Dorn placed him under arrest for cowardice, redistributed his ammunition to Clark's Battery and ordered Hart's guns to the rear. I suspect that the battery flag was dropped during their retreat and eventually recovered by a Federal soldier." (http://history-sites.net/cgi-bin/bbs53x ... ;read=1825)

Interestingly, "The Old State House Museum's conservation cost for Hart's Battery (or Dallas Artillery) Flag is $14,727." http://www.inarkansas.com/23466/old-sta ... ttle-flags

[RebBugler]

Hey SS, thanks for the link and informed info. Once we do Pea Ridge, I'm assuming, down the line, I'll be well read on the battle. Presently, I'm not, but from the little I've read, Van Dorn was a poor leader. He didn't keep his men supplied, they entered the battle having not eaten for 2 days. He split his forces, eliminating his strength advantage, a third bigger than the Union, and his further strategies enabled the Union to have a resounding Victory, opening up Arkansas for the Yankee hordes.

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Southern Steel Wrote:

Hart complained to Van Dorn that the fire had been too hot for them. In anger Van Dorn placed him under arrest for cowardice, redistributed his ammunition to Clark's Battery and ordered Hart's guns to the rear. I suspect that the battery flag was dropped during their retreat and eventually recovered by a Federal soldier.

I'm in full agreement with Van Dorn here. That is an act of cowardice, and should have been dealt with, but I can't judge without all the information.

I have found that Courage is only strong as the last your battle. One day you can stand without trembling, and the next battle your curled up in the fetal position crying out for your mother, and talking off for the hills. Everyone has their breaking point....

Oh well.

[RebBugler]

I'm a vet, served during Vietnam, but didn't see action. However, I lived and worked with a lot of guys that did. And it's my opinion that folks that haven't seen action...should have no opinion.

[Michael Slaunwhite]

I'm a vet, served during Vietnam, but didn't see action. However, I lived and worked with a lot of guys that did. And it's my opinion that folks that haven't seen action...should have no opinion.

Hi.

You are correct to a point. So If I have never served in actual combat, I should not voice my opinion, and that is understandable. So the same should apply then that no one should criticize, or have an opinion on the way their government officials act until they themselves have served in office then?

Like I have mentioned in an earlier post, I have no place in judging another motives, or intentions.

Cheers...

[born2see]

RebBugler wrote:

And it's my opinion that folks that haven't seen action...should have no opinion.

Amen. I've never been in combat but I've talked to WWII and Vietnam vets and there is no way you can relate to that experience unless you've been there yourself.

[RebBugler]

So the same should apply then that no one should criticize, or have an opinion on the way their government officials act until they themselves have served in office then?

Never mind, this rebuttal is beyond reason. In the military orders are orders...you do it or else face military HELL. Right or wrong is incidental. It's the 'I would have been courageous' folks that roll my eyes.

[born2see]

mikesla wrote:

So the same should apply then that no one should criticize, or have an opinion on the way their government officials act until they themselves have served in office then?

Not a good analogy. Most of us can relate to doing a job. Not very many of us can relate to standing your ground when every fiber of your being is screaming "run away, run away". I'm sorry, it's not the same.