New Book on Lincoln's Racial Views

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Hi.

Now this is what I enjoy, good discussion...

Thank You.

[Braxton Bragg]

Very Good Willard, nice even, How ever Slavery was going to die! everyone knew this
So you gotta ask, was the preservation of the Union worth all those lives lost?

Are you as a nation any better for it, is your economy, your politics any better?
See we all know that the war began as a save the Union war,why not let the south go?

I have asked this many times but never has there been a suitable answer, your free the slaves
idea was only used by Lincoln as a cry for help, to put off oversea's intervention.

As Lee said "I have never heard of a President of the United states, raising an army to invade his own country"
75000 volunters to put down a rebellion I see no mention of slaves there?

This slavery thing you Northern folk go on about seems more of a chip on the shoulder (a guilt trip)


Braxton Bragg

[Willard]

Very Good Willard, nice even, How ever Slavery was going to die! everyone knew this
So you gotta ask, was the preservation of the Union worth all those lives lost?

Are you as a nation any better for it, is your economy, your politics any better?
See we all know that the war began as a save the Union war,why not let the south go?

I have asked this many times but never has there been a suitable answer, your free the slaves
idea was only used by Lincoln as a cry for help, to put off oversea's intervention.

As Lee said "I have never heard of a President of the United states, raising an army to invade his own country"
75000 volunters to put down a rebellion I see no mention of slaves there?

This slavery thing you Northern folk go on about seems more of a chip on the shoulder (a guilt trip)

Braxton Bragg

Lincoln actually pondered a plan whereby the federal government would pay slaveowners compensation to free slaves. Unfortunately that did not gain much traction in any corner as things had gotten too far along.

Reference your question, my understanding is that you are from the UK???

I would ask you to first answer why would King George III spend so much treasure and lives to attack his own people in 1776?

Oh and while you are at it, get the f^%k out of Northern Ireland!!! :laugh:

[Braxton Bragg]

Yes Sir!

If I could run parliment I would, I would also get out of Scotland!
I would also get the F**K out of Ahganistan aswell!

I have no love for King George or any of his cronnies, If I could have...I would never have let the British invade and make war against the Colonies.

Braxton Bragg

[KG_Soldier]

"Among the records found at the British archives is an 1863 order from Lincoln granting a British agent permission to recruit volunteers for a Belize colony."


Well. . . Kerflumoxed. . . I'm not sure this subject is "History 101," but I find it most interesting.

And whatever Lincoln's views on the inferiority of blacks and how best to deal with them after the war, they (Lincoln's views on race) have little or nothing to do with why the war began.

[Willard]

Yes Sir!

If I could run parliment I would, I would also get out of Scotland!
I would also get the F**K out of Ahganistan aswell!

I have no love for King George or any of his cronnies, If I could have...I would never have let the British invade and make war against the Colonies.

Braxton Bragg

I would like it if Scotland were free - and Wales too!

Anyway, the short answer is that the south seized federal lands when they attempted to secede. These lands were taken without regard or renumeration to the federal government. Additionally, many of the states that attempted to secede were acquired with federal treasure - specifically those after the original 13 colonies formed the federal government. For example the Louisiana Purchase was funded with money by the federal governement, not the states, and those states the were subsequently created as result of that purchase and federal government authorization. The money to make that purchase and federally subsidized improvements came from ALL the states. So in short, if you paid for part of that fort or harbor down south, would you let your neighbor just simply walk away with it? Nope, didn't think so...

[Braxton Bragg]

Your Argument holds some substance Sir, I thank you for it

My concern is At least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War

I wonder if the price for forts etc were worth it?

Respectfully

Braxton Bragg

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Your Argument holds some substance Sir, I thank you for it

My concern is At least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War

I wonder if the price for forts etc were worth it?

Respectfully

Braxton Bragg

Hi.

Your here aren't you? The price which was paid was to ensure the future of your nation. Unfortunately now the same feelings which started the first Civilwar has resurfaced (without slavery)...I hope you can survive this one.

I have always found it interesting that something which began 150 plus years ago still holds such a high level of hatred. What I mean is, the South lives, and breathes the life of the United States, but hates the United States because of it.

I would suspect that the price paid in lives back then obviously was not enough I guess. I just can't understand this level of hatred, and I hope I never will.

Later!

[Braxton Bragg]

Did you ever really think it would go away?

LOL love the bit with out slavery, you say you cant understand the level of hatred

Try Subjugating a Nation! that should guarantee problems down the years, we have had problems with Slovenia, we have seen changes with Russia and Now changes in Libya, Eygypt, a new world order is forming
Old wounds which people thought had been forgotten are only just under the surface, waiting, waiting.
Oh yeah and no slavery issue to hide behind this time

Braxton Bragg

[Kerflumoxed]

"Among the records found at the British archives is an 1863 order from Lincoln granting a British agent permission to recruit volunteers for a Belize colony."


Well. . . Kerflumoxed. . . I'm not sure this subject is "History 101," but I find it most interesting.

And whatever Lincoln's views on the inferiority of blacks and how best to deal with them after the war, they (Lincoln's views on race) have little or nothing to do with why the war began.

Lincoln's views were not developed, Mark, during the war. "Abraham Lincoln was an avid colonizationist. He quoted with approval Henry Clay's words on the topic. He touted colonization in his annual messages to Congress in 1861 and '62, in his appeal to border-state representatives for compensated emancipation (July 12, 1862), and in the Preliminary Emancipation Proclamation (Sept. 22, 1862). In 1861, addressing Congress, he mentioned contraband slaves who had fallen into the hands of Northern troops, as well as the possibility of border states emancipating their slaves. He advocated that “steps be taken for colonizing both classes, (or the one first mentioned, if the other shall not be brought into existence), at some place, or places, in a climate congenial to them. It might be well to consider, too, -- whether the free colored people already in the United States could not, so far as individuals may desire, be included in such colonization.” A year later, he told Congress, “I cannot make it better known than it already is, that I strongly favor colonization.”

Four years before the war began, "In his “Speech on the Dred Scott decision” (June 26, 1857), he had scolded both parties for not taking up the cause:

"I have said that the separation of the races is the only perfect preventative of amalgamation. I have no right to say all the members of the Republican party are in favor of this, nor to say that as a party they are in favor of it. There is nothing in their platform directly on the subject. But I can say a very large proportion of its members are for it, and that the chief plank in their platform -- opposition to the spread of slavery -- is most favorable to that separation.
Such separation, if ever effected at all, must be effected by colonization; and no political party, as such, is now doing anything directly for colonization. Party operations at present only favor or retard colonization incidentally. The enterprise is a difficult one, but 'when there is a will there is a way;' and what colonization needs most is a hearty will. Will springs from the two elements of moral sense and self-interest. Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and, at the same time, favorable to, or, at least, not against, our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime, and we shall find a way to do it, however great the task may be. The children of Israel, to such numbers as to include four hundred thousand fighting men, went out of Egyptian bondage in a body." http://www.slavenorth.com/colonize.htm

As to Lincoln's views on race, I don't believe it was either stated or implied that it caused or effected the start of the war.

History 101....yep, it is part and parcel of many basic HS textbooks, contrary to the AP review, which causes me to wonder why this topic has made such a stir in the first place. In the Associated Press review (not Fox), the authors (Magness & Page) note, to quote the AP reporter, "Lincoln's view about colonization are well known among historians, even if they don't make it into most schoolbooks", the latter being a questionable generalization.

J