CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

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Ingles of the 57th
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by Ingles of the 57th »

Yes, but I think in TC2M far more divisions actually had artillery attached than in SOWGB and this little specification regarding captured guns was probably not noticed quite so readily. You saw it more often, I recall, when guns were taken by cavalry who rarely had artillery batteries.

The paucity of artillery in the SOWG OOB's is something that I have noticed. Was this a real historical rethink between 2nd Manassas and Gettysburg, with artillery in the latter case being concentrated into Corps and Army units ?

I remember in TC2M painstakingly TC'ing all my Divisional guns and concentrating them into larger formations with great effectiveness at critical points.

Geoff Laver
Late of Her Majesty's 57th Regiment of Foot.
"Die hard, my men. Die hard the 57th."
Last words of Col Ingles commanding His Majesty's 57th Regiment of Foot at Albuhera 1811

Marshal Beresford wrote in his despatch "Our dead, particularly the 57th Regiment,were lying as they fought in the ranks, every wound in front"
Shirkon
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by Shirkon »

Ingles of the 57th wrote:
Yes, but I think in TC2M far more divisions actually had artillery attached than in SOWGB and this little specification regarding captured guns was probably not noticed quite so readily. You saw it more often, I recall, when guns were taken by cavalry who rarely had artillery batteries.

The paucity of artillery in the SOWG OOB's is something that I have noticed. Was this a real historical rethink between 2nd Manassas and Gettysburg, with artillery in the latter case being concentrated into Corps and Army units ?

I remember in TC2M painstakingly TC'ing all my Divisional guns and concentrating them into larger formations with great effectiveness at critical points.

Geoff Laver
Late of Her Majesty's 57th Regiment of Foot.
Both sides did in fact make changes in their OOB's. The Union more so then the Confederates. Where artillery was often attached to as low as Brigades for 2nd Manassas, they were moved to Divisions at the lowest and the Artillery Reserve was formed so that it was easier to get massed concentrations of artillery.

For the Confederates, they moved the artillery from the brigade level up to division. A big factor in the Confederate changes was the death of Jackson and the formation of a third Corps under Hill. Lee took the opportunity to streamline the command structure of the AONV.

There is if you can look at the entire oob the same ammount of artillery as in TC2M, it's just distributed differently.
Last edited by Shirkon on Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.

Sherman, December 1863, remark to a Tennessee woman.
J Canuck
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by J Canuck »

Little Powell wrote:
Figured an ol' TC2M veteran like yourself should know that...
Ohhhhhhhhyahhhhhhh ..... I vaguely recall now that you mention it. I clearly do recall however, capturing bucket-loads of artillery, forming huge grand batteries, turning up the volume and yelling: FIRE!! - followed by my wife banging on the door hollaring: Turn that thing down!
Ingles of the 57th wrote:
Yes, but I think in TC2M far more divisions actually had artillery attached than in SOWGB and this little specification regarding captured guns was probably not noticed quite so readily.
That's it! That's it! Thanks Ingles of the 57th !

Phew ...... for a moment I thought it was an age thing. :unsure:
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RebBugler
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by RebBugler »

J Canuck wrote:
Little Powell wrote:
Figured an ol' TC2M veteran like yourself should know that...
Ohhhhhhhhyahhhhhhh ..... I vaguely recall now that you mention it. I clearly do recall however, capturing bucket-loads of artillery, forming huge grand batteries, turning up the volume and yelling: FIRE!! - followed by my wife banging on the door hollaring: Turn that thing down!
Ingles of the 57th wrote:
Yes, but I think in TC2M far more divisions actually had artillery attached than in SOWGB and this little specification regarding captured guns was probably not noticed quite so readily.
That's it! That's it! Thanks Ingles of the 57th !

Phew ...... for a moment I thought it was an age thing. :unsure:
Naw, our minds get more mature and crisper, right? :woohoo:

Yeah, I like batteries attached to divisions. I've only designed scenarios one time the contrary...my Chattanooga Liberation 'what if' mod, whereas I had small cavalry units and their main mission was to spike those millions of Yankee guns, rather than give up men to capture them.
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BOSTON
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by BOSTON »

Pretty sure Stewart's cavalry had artillery. What I don't know is if it is attached to division or how the OOB is going to set up in an upcoming patch. Will have to do a research to find out for both CSA/Union GB cavalry OOB.

BOSTON :)
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BOSTON
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by BOSTON »

Found this Union cavalry OOB, If anybody is interested.


Cavalry Corps
Cavalry Corps Commanders:
MG Alfred Pleasonton
Division Brigade Regiments and Others
First Division:
BG John Buford (2,748)
1st Brigade:

Col William Gamble
8th Illinois: Maj John Lourie Beveridge
12th Illinois (4 companies); 3rd Indiana (6 companies): Col George H. Chapman
8th New York: Ltc William L. Markell

2nd Brigade:

Col Thomas Devin
6th New York: Maj William E. Beardsley
9th New York: Col William Sackett
17th Pennsylvania: Col Josiah H. Kellogg
3rd West Virginia (2 companies): Capt Seymour B. Conger

Reserve Brigade:

BG Wesley Merritt
6th Pennsylvania: Maj James H. Haseltine
1st US: Capt Richard S. C. Lord
2nd US: Capt Theophilus F. Rodenbough
5th US: Capt Julius W. Mason
6th US: Maj Samuel H. Starr, Lt Louis H. Carpenter, Lt Nicholas Nolan, Capt Ira W. Claflin

Second Division:
BG David McM. Gregg
1st Brigade:

Col John Baillie McIntosh
1st Maryland (11 companies): Ltc James M. Deems
Purnell (Maryland) Legion, Company A: Capt Robert E. Duvall
1st Massachusetts: Ltc Greely S. Curtis
1st New Jersey: Maj Myron H. Beaumont
1st Pennsylvania: Col John P. Taylor
3rd Pennsylvania: Ltc Edward S. Jones
3rd Pennsylvania Heavy Artillery, Battery H: Capt William D. Rank

2nd Brigade:

Col Pennock Huey
(Not at Gettysburg)

3rd Brigade:

Col J. Irvin Gregg
1st Maine (10 companies): Ltc Charles H. Smith
10th New York: Maj M. Henry Avery
4th Pennsylvania: Ltc William E. Doster
16th Pennsylvania, Lieut: Col John K. Robison

HQ Guard
1st Ohio, Company A: Capt Noah Jones

Third Division:
BG Judson Kilpatrick
1st Brigade:

BG Elon J. Farnsworth (K)
Col Nathaniel P. Richmond
5th New York: Maj John Hammond
18th Pennsylvania, Lieut: Col William P. Brinton
1st Vermont, Lieut: Col Addison W. Preston
1st West Virginia (10 companies): Col Nathaniel P. Richmond, Maj Charles E. Capehart

2nd Brigade ("Michigan Brigade"):

BG George A. Custer
1st Michigan: Col Charles H. Town
5th Michigan: Col Russell A. Alger
6th Michigan: Col George Gray
7th Michigan: (10 companies): Col William D. Mann

HQ Guard
1st Ohio, Company C: Capt Samuel N. Stanford

Horse Artillery
1st Brigade:

Capt James M. Robertson
9th Michigan Battery: Capt Jabez J. Daniels
6th New York Battery: Capt Joseph W. Martin
2nd US, Batteries B and L: Lt Edward Heaton
2nd US, Battery M: Lt Alexander C. M. Pennington, Jr.
4th US, Battery E: Lt Samuel S. Elder

2nd Brigade:

Capt John C. Tidball
1st US, Batteries E and G: Capt Alanson M. Randol
1st US, Battery K: Capt William M. Graham, Jr.
2nd US, Battery A: Lt John H. Calef
3rd US, Battery C: Lt William D. Fuller
HOISTINGMAN4

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BOSTON
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by BOSTON »

Not the best OOB of the CSA cavalry, however it's something to work with.



CAVALRY

Maj.-Gen. James E. B. Stuart.



Fitz Lee's Brigade, Brig.-Gen. Fitzhugh Lee:

1st Md. Battalion (serving with Ewell's corps), Maj. Harry Gilmor, Maj. Ridgely Brown;

1st Va., Col. James H. Drake;

2d Va., Col. T. T. Munford;

3d Va., Col. Thomas H. Owen;

4th Va., Col. Williams C. Wickham;

5th Va., Col. T. L. Rosser.

Brigade loss: k, 5; w, 16; m, 29 = 50.


Hampton's Brigade, Brig.-Gen. Wade Hampton (w), Col. Lawrerce S. Baker:

1st N. C., Col. Lawrence S. Baker;

1st S.C.,--;

2d S.C.,; Cobb's (Ga.) Legion, --;

Jeff Davis Legion,;

Phillips's (Ga.) Legion,----


Brigade loss: k, 17; w, 58; m, 16 = 91.

W.H.F. Lee's Brigade, Col. John R. Chambliss, Jr.:

2d N. C.,---;

9th Va., Col. R. L. T. Beale;

10th Va., Col. J. Lucius Davis;

13th Va.,

Brigade loss: k, 2; w, 26; m, 13=41.

Jenkins's Brigade, Brig.-Gen. Albert G. Jenkins (w), Col. M. J. Ferguson:

14th Va.,--;

16th Va., ---;

17th Va., Col. W. H. French;

34th Va. Battalion, Lieut.-Col. V. A. Witcher;

36th Va. Battalion, --;

Va. Battery, Capt. Thomas E. Jackson.

Robertson's Brigade, Brig.-Gen. Beverly H. Robertson (commanded his own and W. E. Jones's brigades):

4th N. C., Col. D. D. Forebee;

5th N.C...


Jones's Brigade, Brig.-Gen. William E. Jones:

6th Va., Maj. C. E. Flournoy;

7th Va., Lieut.-Col. Thomas Marshall;

11th Va., Col. L. L. Lomax;

35th Va. Battalion, Lieut.-Col. E. V. White.

Brigade loss: k, 12; w, 40; m, 6 = 58.

Stuart's Horse Artillery, Maj. R. F. Beckham:

Va. Battery, Capt. James Breathed;

Va. Battery, Capt. R. P. Chew:

Maryland Battery, Capt. W. H. Griffin;

S.C. Battery, Capt. J. F. Hart;

Va. Battery, Capt. W. M. McGregor;

Va. Battery, Capt. M. N. Moorman. Imboden's Command, Brig.-Gen. John D. Imboden:

18th Va. Car., Col. George W. Imboden;

62d Va. (mounted infantry), Col. George H. Smith;

Va. Partisan Rangers, Capt. John H. McNeill;

Va. Battery, Capt. J. H. McClanahan.
HOISTINGMAN4

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Shirkon
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by Shirkon »

In essense, Stewart was a Division commander, so Stewart's Horse Artillery is a Brigade under him. In fact, Lee considered Stewart more of a Cavalry Corps commander with no real division commander. The same is true except the Union Cavalry Corps was and actual corps under Pleasanton with the Horse Artillery a division with 2 brigades of artillery.
War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.

Sherman, December 1863, remark to a Tennessee woman.
BOSTON
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by BOSTON »

The point behind the above OOB posts has to with RebBugler's; "comment about spiking guns". Of course in order to spike guns, you have to capture them first. I'm trying to get a clear picture about the ability of cavalry to capture and keep guns at Gettysburg. We do have scenarios in the game including cavalry, which I have not played, and would like to know if they (cav) can capture and keep the guns before I or others get into those stock/sandlot/MOD/MP scenarios?

BOSTON :)
Last edited by BOSTON on Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
HOISTINGMAN4

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Shirkon
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Re: CAPTURED ARTILLERY ?

Post by Shirkon »

BOSTON wrote:
The point behind the above OOB posts has to with RebBugler's; "comment about spiking guns". Of course in order to spike guns, you have to capture them first. I'm trying to get a clear picture about the ability of cavalry to capture and keep guns at Gettysburg. We do have scenarios in the game including cavalry, which I have not played, and would like to know if they (cav) can capture and keep the guns before I or others get into those stock/sandlot/MOD/MP scenarios?

BOSTON :)
The only cavalry in the game at this time is Buford's Division with 2 Brigades (Gamble's and Devin's) and Calef's Battery A - 2nd U.S. Artillery. In the oob Calef is treated like a separate Division commander. So if the cavalry capture any guns I would think they would disappear.
War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.

Sherman, December 1863, remark to a Tennessee woman.
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