Artillery numbers
Re:Artillery numbers
AJ
After spending considerable time going through that voluminous artillery manual, I could not even find what you posted! If I feel up to it , I'll do a search in another way, or Larry could do a search. There must be some sort of graph displaying cannister effects.
BOSTON
After spending considerable time going through that voluminous artillery manual, I could not even find what you posted! If I feel up to it , I'll do a search in another way, or Larry could do a search. There must be some sort of graph displaying cannister effects.
BOSTON
Last edited by BOSTON on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
HOISTINGMAN4
Drafted in Boston
Drafted in Boston
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Re:Artillery numbers
Look in Chapter 8, page 249, Bob.
J
J
Last edited by Kerflumoxed on Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jack Hanger
Fremont, NE[/size]
"Boys, if we have to stand in a straight line as stationary targets for the Yankees to shoot at, this old Texas Brigade is going to run like hell!" J. B. Poley, 4th Texas Infantry, Hood's Texas Brigade
Fremont, NE[/size]
"Boys, if we have to stand in a straight line as stationary targets for the Yankees to shoot at, this old Texas Brigade is going to run like hell!" J. B. Poley, 4th Texas Infantry, Hood's Texas Brigade
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Re:Artillery numbers
Perhaps this little book will help.
Grape and Canister: The Story of the Field Artillery of the Army of the Potomac, 1861-1865
Grape and Canister: The Story of the Field Artillery of the Army of the Potomac, 1861-1865
Re:Artillery numbers
Kerflumoxed wrote:
I've seen the 10% number before quite a few times. It's probably good for a ballpark figure for all types of artillery.
Stewart's _Pickett's Charge_ book is one of my all-time favorites, though I don't think it's too much help with canister lethality, since canister wounds are hard to distinguish from musket wounds. (I used Stewart's book to inform my calculations of artillery vs. artillery damage, however, since it is very precise with regard to the Confederate pre-attack barrage, which was almost exclusively aimed at Union artillery!) I'll check it out again and look for canister effects. The 1,000 casualties from canister is a meaty number, but we don't know how many canister rounds were fired.
A good account Scales's attack on Seminary Ridge on the First Day might be a better place to look for pure canister effects. I'll look in David Martin's and Harry Pfanz's books on the First Day.
Thanks, J.[/b]
I do not recall ever finding a definitive listing of casualties by weapon type other then a general synopsis stating that approximately 10& of all casualties were caused by artillery. There was, however, a non-scientific study authored by Professor George R. Stewart from the U.C.Berkeley that provided an interesting summation of his research on casualties suffered during Pickett's Charge. (Here is a graph showing some of his data: http://gburginfo.brinkster.net/ChargeCasualties.htm) Much of Professor Stewart's findings are based upon meticulous "speculations" (sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it...something akin to Government Intelligence?). Nevertheless, it does provide for interesting consideration.
The book, published in 1959, is titled Pickett's Charge: A Microhistory of the Final Attack at Gettysburg, July 3, 1863. In Appendix C, Professor Stewart attempts to ascertain the number of artillery casualties suffered by the participating members of Pickett's Charge. Stewart devised a methodology utilizing several base questions. For example:
1. Number of rounds fired.
2. Number of balls in a canister round.
3. Number of troops advancing.
4. Number of troops withdrawing.
5. Accuracy of artillery fired.
6. Number of casualties.
7. Etc.
Based upon the statistical data he acquired, Professor Stewart concluded there were approximately 500 Confederates who were casualties of artillery fire (shell, solid, spherical). He also concludes that approximately 1,000 Confederates were casualties of cannister. All other Confederate casualties he attrributes to small arms fire. (As an aside, he concluded that the vast majority of Federal casualties were caused by small arms.)
Further, there are no definitive medical records extant that can confirm the number of wounds caused by artillery fire.
I've seen the 10% number before quite a few times. It's probably good for a ballpark figure for all types of artillery.
Stewart's _Pickett's Charge_ book is one of my all-time favorites, though I don't think it's too much help with canister lethality, since canister wounds are hard to distinguish from musket wounds. (I used Stewart's book to inform my calculations of artillery vs. artillery damage, however, since it is very precise with regard to the Confederate pre-attack barrage, which was almost exclusively aimed at Union artillery!) I'll check it out again and look for canister effects. The 1,000 casualties from canister is a meaty number, but we don't know how many canister rounds were fired.
A good account Scales's attack on Seminary Ridge on the First Day might be a better place to look for pure canister effects. I'll look in David Martin's and Harry Pfanz's books on the First Day.
Re:Artillery numbers
Southern Son wrote:
I haven't looked at this one in a while, and I don't own it. I think I'd better get it. If you have it, and see something in it that would help us, let me know.Perhaps this little book will help.
Grape and Canister: The Story of the Field Artillery of the Army of the Potomac, 1861-1865
Re:Artillery numbers
Amish John wrote:
Great book, and thanks for the link, AJ, but it's all about hardware and not about the effects of artillery on infantry.BOSTON wrote:Not sure, but here's the linkAJ
Was that article based on smoothbore or rifled cannons? or both?
BOSTON
www.civilwarartillery.com/books/GIBBON.PDF
Re:Artillery numbers
Kerflumoxed wrote:
Yes--interesting that General Gibbon likes canister at 300 to 450 yards. This is farther than most canister ranges I've read. Unfortunately, he still doesn't give us a figure for the dispersion at different distances.Look in Chapter 8, page 249, Bob.
J
Last edited by larrytagg on Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re:Artillery numbers
I just checked my copy of "Double Canister at Ten Yards - The Federal Artillery and the Repulse of Pickett's Charge" by David Shultz and he doesn't give any real casaulty figures but he does state that a good 12 lb Napoleon crew could fire 3 to 4 charges of canister per minute. And a charge could be single, double or even triple canister depending on the range.
Last edited by Shirkon on Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.
Sherman, December 1863, remark to a Tennessee woman.
Sherman, December 1863, remark to a Tennessee woman.
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Re:Artillery numbers
larrytagg wrote:
Sorry, didn't have the book.
I found nothing about effects of artillery on infantry.
But i found this.
Infantry vs. Artillery: Distance 1500 yards.
Infantry: 1400 yards - 100yards at quick step (86 yards in a minute). Time 16 min. 17 sec.
Artillery: 1500 yards - 650 yards, 20rounds spherical case. Time 9min. 53 sec.
Artillery: 650 yards - 350 yards, 7 solid shot. Time 3 min. 29 sec.
Artillery: 350 yards - 100 yards, 9 canister.Time 2 min. 54 sec.
Infantry : 100 yards -0 yards at double quick and charge. Time 109yards in a minute
Artillery: 100 yards- 0 yards,2 canister.Time 40sec.
Cavalry vs. Artillery: Distance 1500 yards
Cavalry: 1500 yards - 880 yards at a trot.Time 2 min. 48 sec.
Artillery:1500 yards - 650 yards,7 rounds spherical case.Time 3 min. 32.
Cavalry: 880 yards - 440 yards at maneuvering gallop.Time 1 min. 24 sec.
Artillery: 650yards - 350 yards, 2 solid shot.Time 48 sec.
Cavalry: 440 yards - 0 yards at gallop and charge.Time 42 sec.
Artillery: 350 yards - 0 yards, 2 canister.Time 34 sec.
From the book: Arms and Equipment of the Civil War by Jack Coggins.
A tip:
Google for this book:
Field artillery and firepower
by Maj. Gen. Jonathan B. A. Bailey
Southern Son wrote:I haven't looked at this one in a while, and I don't own it. I think I'd better get it. If you have it, and see something in it that would help us, let me know.Perhaps this little book will help.
Grape and Canister: The Story of the Field Artillery of the Army of the Potomac, 1861-1865
Sorry, didn't have the book.
I found nothing about effects of artillery on infantry.
But i found this.
Infantry vs. Artillery: Distance 1500 yards.
Infantry: 1400 yards - 100yards at quick step (86 yards in a minute). Time 16 min. 17 sec.
Artillery: 1500 yards - 650 yards, 20rounds spherical case. Time 9min. 53 sec.
Artillery: 650 yards - 350 yards, 7 solid shot. Time 3 min. 29 sec.
Artillery: 350 yards - 100 yards, 9 canister.Time 2 min. 54 sec.
Infantry : 100 yards -0 yards at double quick and charge. Time 109yards in a minute
Artillery: 100 yards- 0 yards,2 canister.Time 40sec.
Cavalry vs. Artillery: Distance 1500 yards
Cavalry: 1500 yards - 880 yards at a trot.Time 2 min. 48 sec.
Artillery:1500 yards - 650 yards,7 rounds spherical case.Time 3 min. 32.
Cavalry: 880 yards - 440 yards at maneuvering gallop.Time 1 min. 24 sec.
Artillery: 650yards - 350 yards, 2 solid shot.Time 48 sec.
Cavalry: 440 yards - 0 yards at gallop and charge.Time 42 sec.
Artillery: 350 yards - 0 yards, 2 canister.Time 34 sec.
From the book: Arms and Equipment of the Civil War by Jack Coggins.
A tip:
Google for this book:
Field artillery and firepower
by Maj. Gen. Jonathan B. A. Bailey
Last edited by Southern Son on Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:Artillery numbers
larrytagg wrote:
Isn't the dispersion he mentions "diverging from each other, in the form of a cone, the greater part of the balls being in the centre, and the extreme ones separating about one-tenth of the range" what you were looking for? I guess he's saying, for example, if the canister balls travel travel 100 yards they will disperse 10 yards? Of course I would imagine this would vary by type of tube.Kerflumoxed wrote:Yes--interesting that General Gibbon likes canister at 300 to 450 yards. This is farther than most canister ranges I've read. Unfortunately, he still doesn't give us a figure for the dispersion at different distances.Look in Chapter 8, page 249, Bob.
J
Last edited by Amish John on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
You can get farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.