What if

[Colonel Dreux]

From the Confederate side of things, I think it would be nice for Longstreet to have Pickett available to him on Day 2. With the help of Pickett Little Round Top might could have been overrun and the Union left and center-left crushed.

[BOSTON]

Nice report Hancock!

[BOSTON]

Colonel Dreux wrote:

From the Confederate side of things, I think it would be nice for Longstreet to have Pickett available to him on Day 2. With the help of Pickett Little Round Top might could have been overrun and the Union left and center-left crushed.

I fully agree with your assessment. At the very least, Meade would have lost interior troop movement, the Tannytown Road would have been cut and the Baltimore Road threatened. God only knows what Stewart could have been doing in the meantime.

[Gfran64]

Very nice post Hancock.

Greg B)

[Hancock the Superb]

My question for you, Colonel Dreux is this:

Do you think it is possible, with the addition of but one small division (remember, 2 of Pickett's brigades were left in Virginia) would throw back the weight of the entire VI Corps? The VI Corps was virtually unengaged during the entire battle - and even though it marched the entire way to Gettysburg overnight, they would still be able to mount a very heavy fight. (The VI Corps was actually 1/5 of Meade's army. That is a lot of troops.)

However, it seems plausible if everything went right, the addition of Pickett could make a Confederate victory possible.

I don't want to harp on anyone, but the point I believe is the most important here: After General Hancock arrived on Cemetary Hill (I grace myself... modestly, I hope ), it would have been slim for General Lee to win the battle in the same area.

This is because of two points:
1. 13 Confederate brigades - a total of almost 3.5 divisions, can be struck off the roster for battle on July 2nd, due to severe action on July 1st. It can pretty much be stated that 2/7s of the Union army effectively took out close to 1/2 (Pickett's Division not included) the Confederate army for the 2nd Day's fight.

2. This piggybacks off of what I just said, but for the Union side: 1/5 of the Union army was never engaged in any serious combat during Gettysburg - the entire VI Corps.

So, in grand total, we have 5/7 of an effective Union army vs. just over 1/2 of an effective Confederate army (subtracting Pickett's division).

[Colonel Dreux]

Hancock,

You're probably right, but things like time and placement of units matter just as much as the total number of troops at Meade's disposal at any given time. I'm not saying with Pickett Longstreet would have, for certain, overrun Little Round Top or fully crushed not only Sickles, but the reserves thrown in by your own Corps, II Corps.

It would have depended on how Longstreet used Pickett and what time they got off. Little Round Top came close to falling, so one could suppose with additional support it could have been taken. Perhaps Longstreet would have used Pickett differently though and not had any of his regiments near Little Round Top. R.H. Anderson would have probably needed to do a better job of holding II Corps units in place and joining in the attack.

The basic point is that Longstreet might have done a bit more on July 2 if he had Pickett. Would that have meant total victory? Perhaps not, but it might have meant the 20th Maine getting mostly captured or run off their spot on Little Round Top.

VI Corps was arguably not in good fighting condition despite being on the battlefield and prepared to help where needed.

[Gfran64]

By the time Longstreet would have gotten artillery on top of LRT it would have been dark or close to it. Meade would have refused his left flank still having good internal lines. VI Corp would be arriving throughout the evening and that would give you Longstreet deployed across Meade's refused left, Longstreet having at least his east flank in the air and maybe even his west flank if not in the air, not really in direct contact with the rest of the ANV. Now VI corp hits him from the rear and he is in a really bad way. The line would look a lot like Pope's did when Longstreet flanked him except the situation would be reversed but I would guess that the outcome would have been the same. Longstreet without sufficient support from Hill probably would have withdrawn from his position with the arrival of VI corp as he would have reacted to that situation. Pope didn't.

Regards,

Greg B)

[Hancock the Superb]

I believe an important point of this is that just because LRT is taken, it doesn't mean that the Union army's position is lost at all. In fact, what a better place to tie up troops holding (the Confederate line would stretch for a real long ways by then), then strike out of the Peach Orchard, cutting off any force on LRT.

[BOSTON]

Hancock the Superb wrote:

I believe an important point of this is that just because LRT is taken, it doesn't mean that the Union army's position is lost at all. In fact, what a better place to tie up troops holding (the Confederate line would stretch for a real long ways by then), then strike out of the Peach Orchard, cutting off any force on LRT.

That has been Gfran's position also, I would not think Longstreet would be waiting for a Meade counterattack, for he would have possiblly taken Meade's HQ by then, "if" Longstreet attacks going west from left side of little RT. Support from Hill would have been crucial, for a coordinated swift action for a victory. Yes, Longstreet's right flank would have been exposed, but not for long.

If Lee can't take Culp's Hill, or LRT, or the hills in between on day two, or any combination of 2 of those 3, his ass is grass.

I'm dying to try it in the game, providing Sickles had followed orders in the first place.

[Colonel Dreux]

No doubt, I don't disagree with this.

edit: in response to Hancock's last post.