Gettysburg Battlefield Curiosities

[Amish John]

Last night I attended with some friends a Civil War Round Table (these are lecture series by noted CW authors, historians, Gettysburg park guides, etc) at the Lititz, PA library. The subject was Gettysburg battlefield curiosities. Roy Frampton, a Gettysburg licensed guide since 1968 spent about and hour and a half giving a slide presentation about little know features of the battlefield. A few of the items covered were fossil dinosaur footprints, witness trees, numerous rock carvings, little known facts about Devil's Den, details about the deaths of prominent officers at the battle, etc. Very interesting. Not your common everyday battle history.

One interesting item was that the historians at Gettysburg belief they have now identified the dead Condeferate soldier at the "sharpshooter's" position at Devil's Den. His name is Langley of the 1st Texas if I remember correctly.

If any of you have a Civil War Round Table meeting in your area, I'd encourage you to check them out.

[Rich Mac]

Hi guys! I've been lurking around here for quite some time, but haven't posted before.

Since the subject of Round Tables came up, I have to say that I never attended a meeting, but had the distinct pleasure of taking several trips with the Baltimore Civil War Round Table. These were guided by the incredible Ed Bearss.

It's quite an experience visiting a Civil War battlefield with a group of interested and knowledgeable people. I can traipse around Gettysburg with the wife and kids nearly anytime I want, but they get bored and want to go home after an hour. I've spent hours on the Gettysburg battlefield by myself, and while I love it, I want to share the experience with someone else.

I want to put my two cents worth in, that you should try to hook up with a Round Table, if nothing else, for the inevitable trips they will take. It's a blast. Of course having Ed Bearss along sure didn't hurt

[Ephrum]

I'm glad you posted on this subject Amish John. When I was touring the Sherman House, the ladies who gave the tours said that there is a Civil War Roundtable held there monthly.
After reading your post, and Rich Mac's, I'm going to have to look into attending one of these. ACW geek that I am, it sounds like an enjoyable experience, and time well spent.

Thanks fella's!

[Kerflumoxed]

Civil War Roundtables are only as good as the quality of the presentations. To have a scholarly guide like Mr. Bearss would be the ultimate source of information and leadership. I am envious!

On the other hand, there is a local roundtable in Fremont that is somewhat less than scholarly. Two former colleagues and fellow professors "coerced" me with the promise of an after-meeting foray to the local pub and, seeking only to observe, went on the excursion to the local library for a meeting this past early fall. Their presentation was on their recent trip to Gettysburg (one of many in the past dozen years they have taken) where they expounded on their most recent discoveries, particularly the Picket's Charge arena.

Another first-time visitor was enthralled by the description presented by these minions of knowledge, which included multiple, though minor, errors. It was not until the local "expert" was asked by the novice, "How many men were in Picket's Charge?" that the true depth of his knowledge was forthcoming. Puffing up his chest as a precursor to his presumably accurate answer, in a deep, authoritative voice, he responded, "Oh...there were somewhere between 35 and 40 thousand men that crossed that plain with General Pickett that afternoon!" Normally, being the quiet, reticent individual that I am :woohoo: , I politely pointed out that this statistic was incorrect and slightly inflated, by perhaps as much as 3 times! This seemingly obvious correction of a misstated fact, only intended to correct the record, went over like a pregnant high-jumper! Grabbing my Beehive, I prepared a hasty exit much in the manner that William Lloyd Garrison would depart a pro-slavery meeting after stating his thesis.

My long-winded point is simply: Be aware of who the "expert" is ... and check the facts! :dry:

[Ephrum]

I appreciate the heads up Kerflumoxed. I guess that's just a chance one takes. But you'll have that, from time to time, in any format. No matter the subject, there's always someone who thinks their on a higher plane than those around them. And to me, it's kind of funny when, by someone's very statements or actions, they simply prove how much they don't know. Like I said, you'll have that. If I have a similar experience as yours Kerflumoxed, I just won't return. But I'll be glad to tell you guys about it! B)


When I was touring the Sherman House, I made the error of telling the tour guide that I was originally from South Carolina. Boy didn't she put some serious spin into what she was telling me. I put up with it for a time, but when she tried to tell me Sherman was the reason the European countries decided to stay out of the ACW, I had to correct her on that. It was not well recieved. Thankfully it was at the end of the tour.

[Armchair General]

Ephrum wrote:

When I was touring the Sherman House, I made the error of telling the tour guide that I was originally from South Carolina. Boy didn't she put some serious spin into what she was telling me. I put up with it for a time, but when she tried to tell me Sherman was the reason the European countries decided to stay out of the ACW, I had to correct her on that. It was not well recieved. Thankfully it was at the end of the tour.

I think the 'fact' was just a representation of the locals' pride over Sherman. Up here in Maine, I think some people would like to believe that Chamberlain held the entirety of Little Round Top with his fingernails all by himself, just because they're proud of what he did. My mother still gets annoyed when I mumble about the rest of Vincent's brigade whenever Chamberlain gets brought up.

[Ephrum]

They are proud of Sherman, no doubt about it. I must add that when I corrected her, I did it as diplomatically as possible. She was a nice old lady and the last thing I wanted to do was put her on the defensive. It wasn't a bad moment, just a bump at the end of the tour. I mean you could tell she didn't care for my opinion, but she wasn't about to lose her manners.

I understand your experience Armchair General! It really upsets most of my relatives in the south, that I don't have a problem with Sherman's march. To hear them talk, you'd think his army just pulled out, and the their homes are still burning.


Amish John, you mentioned that among the topics were little known facts about the Devil's Den. What were some of them?

[Kerflumoxed]

Ephrum wrote:

They are proud of Sherman, no doubt about it. Please know that when I corrected her, I did it as diplomaticly as possible. She was a nice old lady and the last thing I wanted to do was put her on the defensive. It wasn't a bad moment, just a bump at the end of the tour. But it was funny.


Amish John, you mentioned that among the topics were little known facts about the Devil's Den. What were some of them?

At many of the smaller museums or historical site, they must rely upon volunteers who have limited knowledge, relying upon what they are "directed" to say by the "professional staff" or executive director. Of course, as already noted, "local pride" often overrides historical considerations. I live in Fremont, NE, where they celebrate John C. Fremont Days every July. Here is a classic example of not knowing, or not caring, the true history of the buffoon known as "The Pathfinder." In this case, not knowing allows the John C. Fremont Committee to venerate the man whose arse was soundly kicked by T.J. Jackson, forced to resign his earlier Missouri command when he usurped the power of the President and emancipated the local slaves, ad nauseum. (Gee, sometimes it IS painful to be a historian! :dry: )

Then, again, I still find it to be a positive when ANY group or individual takes pride in who they are and what they stand for. So, I bite my tongue and enjoy the festivities, such as they are! :cheer: And, yes, I find merriment and glee when Mrs. Fremont is driven by in the carriage at the parade! Huzzah! :ohmy:

[Rich Mac]

Kerflumoxed wrote:
(Gee, sometimes it IS painful to be a historian! :dry: )

The intolerable burden of knowledge

It's unfortunate that you had such a poor experience with your "roundtable". I hope that you at least had the opportunity to finish your beer before doing the William Lloyd Garrison shuffle out the door.

[Kerflumoxed]

Rich Mac wrote:

Kerflumoxed wrote:
(Gee, sometimes it IS painful to be a historian! :dry: )

The intolerable burden of knowledge

It's unfortunate that you had such a poor experience with your "roundtable". I hope that you at least had the opportunity to finish your beer before doing the William Lloyd Garrison shuffle out the door.

I am sure I have come across as "all-knowing" (maybe even a pompous north end of a southbound horse :S ) but please let assure you that I am not that conceited! :laugh: In fact, there is not a day that goes by that I learn how little I do know (and my wife of almost 50 years reminds me if I forget). Think that comes with age.

As to the local roundtable, there are certainly some fine fellows there including some retired teachers that I frequently encounter in the halls of the local schools. In simple terms, however, I find it to be a disservice when a serious question is asked and an incorrect response is offered as the definitive answer. Is it not more intellectually honest to simply say, "I'm not sure" or "I do not know, but I'll find the answer for you."? Most, if not all, academics readily acknowledge their strenths and weaknesses and refuse to play the "know-all" game simply to impress the listener. (I seem to recall an old adage that "...a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!")

As to the roundtable refreshments, alas, there was only coffee or water available at the meeting. Since I don't drink coffee, and a famous philosopher reminded mankind that "fish etc., etc., etc., in water", I simply waited until the meeting was over and retired to the local pub to imbide more wholesome refreshments...thank you very much! (Harp Lager with a twist of lemon tends to soothes all traumas!)