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First Bull Run scenario modification question

4 years 22 hours ago #1 by georgerutherford1861

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  • Hello everyone,

    I've been working on a conversion of the Evans scenario from the TC2M Community Mod Patch 3 version to SOW (using Mark Tewes' very nice Bull Run map). I've been able to work through just about everything except for the unit starting positions. I realize that I could maneuver all of the units to their respective starting positions, but I thought I would try something different.

    Taking one unit as the starting point (Evans himself in this case), I used the scenario OOB's starting positions and found the distance (x and z) separating each unit from the starting point. Then, using the coordinate for where Evans should be as a starting point on Mark Tewes' map, I add or subtract the x and z distances appropriately, which should give me the correct starting positions for all of the other units.

    The dilemma is that so far it is not working out for me, so I thought I would pose the question to you smart folks here. Here are the assumptions I have been using, based on info I have gleaned from various posts.

    TC2M map coordinate system starts from the lower left corner and increases in the x and z axes as you move right and up. The map's units convert using 32 units per yard.

    SOW map coordinate system starts from the upper right corner and increases in the x and z axes as you go right and down. The map's units convert using 30 units per yard.

    I've properly accounted for the difference in how the z axis works. The units appear to be in the correct direction from where Evans is at, but they are not far enough away in the z axis (x axis looks like it might be correct). The map from TC2M was the 1st_Bull_Run_Hist map. I'm kind of stumped.

    I can always go back and march the units to their positions to get them figured out, but I thought that if I could get a way for a spreadsheet to adjust the starting positions that I could get through more scenarios faster.

    Thank you all in advance for any help you may be able to offer.

    Doug

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    4 years 20 hours ago #2 by Saddletank

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  • Personally, when designing scenarios I just don't bother with such accuracy. Take a look at the unit layouts from a TC2M map and then place them approximately where you think they should be in SoWGB. That will be good enough. The huge number of variables that begin to accumulate once a player starts a scenario will make time spent on extremely accurate placement something of a wasted effort.

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    4 years 18 hours ago #3 by the reb

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  • What scenario generator is being discussed here?

    thanks,
    the reb

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    4 years 14 hours ago - 4 years 14 hours ago #4 by Los

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  • I agree with saddletank.

    Honestly Just set Noai and alpha omega and March the guys where you want them at 4x time speed and press L when you are all set. It's fast and simple. I am running an online campaign right now and gunning up many battles very quickly using this method.

    However you can always March a few guys to known points and use the method I explain above,then double check your grid system using the startlos.csv file to see if your estimates Match the reality of the map's grid system.
    Los
    Last edit: 4 years 14 hours ago by Los.

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    4 years 6 hours ago #5 by Little Powell

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  • Yeah I agree completely what the others have said. But the big show-stopper with trying to calculate X,Y location etc., the TC2M maps are 2.5 x 2.5 mile, while Mark's Bull Run map is 5x5 mile.

    A little trick I always use when placing troops in GB scenarios: Create a little mod with the unitglobal.csv, and set all units run speed to 1000. They'll get to where you want them to be A LOT faster. :)

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    4 years 5 hours ago #6 by the reb

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  • May I kindly ask again, what scenario generator is being used here? Leffe's only allows you three Corps, I would like more Corps per army.

    thanks,
    the reb

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    4 years 4 hours ago #7 by Saddletank

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  • No scenario generator is being used, the scenario is being built manually by running the game with noai=1 and alphaomega=1 in the SoWGB.ini file. It allows you to move both sides and they don't fight - perfect for moving forces to where you want them for a scenario. You then hit the 'L' key to save the startlocs file and modify the scenario file using that.

    99% of my scenarios are created this way, its pretty quick and easy and with the unitglobal hi-speed mod Little Powell suggests, even quicker!

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    4 years 2 hours ago #8 by georgerutherford1861

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  • Sorry about not replying earlier, yes as Saddletank says no scenario generator is being used, this is just brute force conversion of the scenario files from a Take Command 2nd Manassas scenario to Scourge of War.

    I might try piddling around a bit more with doing the math, otherwise I will drive on with the superspeed suggestion above. The info about the 2.5x2.5 versus 5x5 map is useful though. Were most or all TC2M maps 2.5x2.5?

    Doug

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    4 years 1 hour ago - 4 years 1 hour ago #9 by Little Powell

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  • georgerutherford1861 wrote: Were most or all TC2M maps 2.5x2.5?


    All of them were. 5 mile maps weren't introduced until Scourge Of War: Gettysburg. The first 5 mile map was Alpine, next the full Gettysburg map that was included in the ECF patch. Afterwards, all SOW maps have been 5 miles.
    Last edit: 4 years 1 hour ago by Little Powell.

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    4 years 52 minutes ago #10 by the reb

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  • Thank you very much Saddletank. Is the "Unitglobal Hi-speed Mod" downloadable? I did a search but came up empty.

    reb...

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    3 years 11 months ago #11 by the reb

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  • Another question to Saddletaank or anyone else who can help me. As Saddletank explained...."built manually by running the game....". What is meant by "running the game"? That is, do I have to use existing scenarios and modify? Does this work in Sandbox? Basically, how do you get started?

    thanks,

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    3 years 11 months ago - 3 years 11 months ago #12 by Leffe7

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  • Hey Reb

    I found this old post which can be of use to you if you want to "manually" create a scenario.
    http://kriegsspiel.forumotion.net/t265-mp-scenario-creation-tutorial#1796
    Replace Part 3 with part 5.

    Regards
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    Last edit: 3 years 11 months ago by Leffe7.

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    3 years 11 months ago #13 by the reb

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  • Thanks Leffe7....To be honest, it looks intimidating.....and I assume this is what Saddletank was referring to. I'll give this a try next rainy day....guess I can't really screw up anything existing?

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    3 years 11 months ago #14 by Saddletank

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  • Make a new OOB by renaming an existing one and save it as a Mod called "NewOOB" with a folder inside that called "OOBs" and put your OOB in there and activate that mod. Then you can't screw anything up. You don't touch any of the stock scenarios. Yes, it can look intimidating at first but once you've done the process a couple of times it becomes like riding a bike. ;)

    If you need any help I can talk via PMs or you could get me on the KS server teamspeak. Talking is a lot quicker than typing!

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    3 years 11 months ago #15 by the reb

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  • To All....

    I'm making progress...Made and proofed the scenario as it's recognized within User Scenarios. But stuck at 2.4 as I cannot find [INIT] in any scenario file? May have trouble finding Debug Mode. If I can find these two file locations, I should have most of it.... Thanks Saddletank

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    3 years 11 months ago #16 by Saddletank

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  • Those sections are in the file SoWGB.ini which is in Norbsoft\Scourge of War - Gettysburg\Work folder (or you might have it under Matrix). It opens with Notepad and you need two sections:

    [Init] or as I have [Initialization]

    and

    [Debug]

    under debug are these parameters:

    AutoGameDB=1
    MPLog=1
    DbgLvl=2
    DrawTiles=0
    NoAI=0
    AlphaOmega=0

    The Dbglvl just gives you extra useful data on the top left of the screen, you can cycle it off while playing using the U key.

    NoAI and AlphaOmega should be manually set to '1' (without the quotes) when you are building and testing a scenario. They let you move the troops of both sides and turn the AI off so opposing troops don't go into combat when they meet. If you are positioning troops on a map, units of both sides will happily march along the same road together.

    Set these variables back to '0' when you want to fight the battle.

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    3 years 11 months ago #17 by the reb

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  • I do appreciate the time you guys are offering, but I'm at a standstill, dazed, and confused.


    ***The following is in my scenario configuration settings within the scenario I created. Somewhat matches what 2.4 within the tutorial is stating.

    [init]
    lvl1grade=-40000
    carryover=0
    lvl6grade=-5000
    lvl3grade=-20000
    map=FBSC
    strategicai=1
    lvl2grade=-30000
    weather=2
    starttime=06:00:00
    lvl5grade=-10000
    failgrade=-40000
    lvl4grade=-15000
    sandbox=4
    sandboxsize=4

    I have no lines indicating noai or alphaOmega in any file.....

    ***In Part 3 of the tutorial it states "TO ADD" Debug Mode if not there? Do I add these lines? If yes, in configuration settings?

    [Debug]
    AutoGameDB=1
    MPLog=1
    DbgLvl=2
    DrawTiles=0
    NoAI=0
    AlphaOmega=0



    ***As far as the SOWGB Notepad document in Work Folder. The closest I have is within a stand alone single file titled sowgb - Notepad.

    [Initialization]
    Full Screen=1
    Screen Res=0
    AntiA=0
    Anso=0


    Does any of this help?

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    3 years 11 months ago #18 by Saddletank

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  • Yes, the noai, etc entries are in the debug section as I explained above.

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    3 years 11 months ago #19 by the reb

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  • Thanks Saddletank....Stay with me as I have PROGRESSED....I added the Debug Lines to Notepad and got to the point where both armies are on the map and I can move both armies to any location.

    Here my issue....

    So I've spent 30 minutes moving troops, I saved file under Sandbox, and shutdown the game. When I launch from User Scenario, I still get my two armies but no changes, armies start from the beginning positions. When I launch from the Saved Sandbox Game, I can continue on with the changes?

    What should be happening at this point or what should I be doing next?

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    3 years 11 months ago - 3 years 11 months ago #20 by Saddletank

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  • When your armies are in position hit the 'L' key which dumps the startlocs file (starting locations). This will be in the Gettysburg\Work folder as a .csv file opened best using Excel.

    Open it and then open the scenario.csv file you have saved in your sandbox scenario (BTW best to rename your sandbox folder to a useful scenario name or it will get over-written).

    In the startlocs.csv file you are interested in columns C,D,E and F. Highlight these columns starting at ROW2 and by holding down the left mouse button, drag down and across so these 4 columns are highlighted down to the last data row. Check how many rows this is before you release the mouse button. Now with these cells highlighted hit ctrl+C to copy them to the clipboard. Next, with your scenario.csv open, find columns O,P,Q and R. These are the corresponding unit location columns in the scenario file. Highlight these four columns from ROW3 (note, this is different from the ROW2 in the startlocs file) and make them highlighted in the same way you did before. Check you have the exact same number of rows. While they are highlighted hit Ctrl+V and this will paste the clipboard contents onto the highlighted cells.

    This is taking the saved positions from your manually moved armies and pasting those positions into the original scenario game.

    Now go to column G in startlocs and highlight this, again from ROW2 only to the last entry. paste this data into column U of the scenario file but from ROW3 again, as before. As you manoeuvred your units across the map you probably changed some unit/brigade/division formations. Copying the formation column preserves this too.

    Save your scenario file.

    Open the game, run your scenario and check the units are in the right places.

    Enjoy.

    Note: be aware that for some MP scenarios the positioning of division formations is limited but for SP I think you are okay whatever sandbox mode you use.

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    Last edit: 3 years 11 months ago by Saddletank.
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    3 years 11 months ago #21 by the reb

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  • This will keep me busy for a while.....thanks Saddletank!!!!

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    3 years 11 months ago #22 by Saddletank

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  • NP, it is far more long-winded to describe it than to do it. Once you get seasoned at working with these files you'll be copying start locations like this to scenario files inside 1 minute.

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    3 years 11 months ago #23 by the reb

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  • I'm lost in file management?

    *I've completed troop location and ready to hit "L key. Will that "csv" file appear as a single stand alone file (not in a folder) in the Works Folder?

    *I have a saved Sandbox File named "Fredericksburg" which was launched through the User Scenario which that file folder is in Works Folder and also named "Fredericksburg". Now I also noticed that I can launched the same work file as "Fredericksburg" if I launch "Sandbox" within User Scenario, not sure if that matters...Both launches begin with starting locations only.

    *You stated: "Open the csv file and then open the scenario.csv file you have saved in your sandbox scenario (BTW best to rename your sandbox folder to a useful scenario name or it will get over-written)"

    *Where is the sandbox folder are you talking about or have I already done this by creating the "Fredericksburg" Folder?

    *Is the "csv" file the map location file? If so, my map location file is presently empty within my "Fredericksburg" Folder.

    thanks,

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    3 years 11 months ago #24 by Saddletank

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  • the reb wrote: *I've completed troop location and ready to hit "L key. Will that "csv" file appear as a single stand alone file (not in a folder) in the Works Folder?

    Yup.

    the reb wrote: *I have a saved Sandbox File named "Fredericksburg" which was launched through the User Scenario which that file folder is in Works Folder and also named "Fredericksburg". Now I also noticed that I can launched the same work file as "Fredericksburg" if I launch "Sandbox" within User Scenario, not sure if that matters...Both launches begin with starting locations only.

    Move your Fredericksburg folder to the Scenarios folder. The start locations will change when you put in the new startlocs data.

    the reb wrote: *You stated: "Open the csv file and then open the scenario.csv file you have saved in your sandbox scenario (BTW best to rename your sandbox folder to a useful scenario name or it will get over-written)"

    *Where is the sandbox folder are you talking about or have I already done this by creating the "Fredericksburg" Folder?

    The sandbox folder is created in the scenarios folder when you play a sandbox game. Yes, as you've since renamed it Fredericksburg then the scenario.csv file you want is now in your Fredericksburg folder.

    the reb wrote: *Is the "csv" file the map location file? If so, my map location file is presently empty within my "Fredericksburg" Folder.

    No, the csv file I was referring to is the startlocs.csv file that will be created in the work folder when you hit "L" to save your chosen unit starting locations for your Fredericksburg scenario. It will have some date/time numbers after the "startlocs" bit, but that is the file you want.

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    3 years 11 months ago #25 by the reb

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  • Progress...almost home (I think) Saddletank.....

    *Got through the start location drill. Ran the scenario....All my Divisions in both armies are in the same locations (so to speak) but changed from Column Formation to Line Formation? Does this involve changing a value in Column "U"?

    *Running the Scenario. My Debug Level Entries have disappeared? Remember I had to add the Debug Level Entries beneath INIT? Would I add the Entries again and change NOAI and Alpha Omego values?

    thanks,
    reb

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    3 years 11 months ago #26 by RebBugler

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  • the reb wrote: Progress...almost home (I think) Saddletank.....

    *Got through the start location drill. Ran the scenario....All my Divisions in both armies are in the same locations (so to speak) but changed from Column Formation to Line Formation? Does this involve changing a value in Column "U"?

    *Running the Scenario. My Debug Level Entries have disappeared? Remember I had to add the Debug Level Entries beneath INIT? Would I add the Entries again and change NOAI and Alpha Omego values?

    thanks,
    reb


    Unitlocs copies the formations column which also needs to be transferred for setup accuracy.

    The ini file entries should look something like this:

    [Initialization]
    Full Screen=1
    Screen Res=0
    MapPort=0
    MipMaps =3

    [Debug]
    RakLog=0
    DbgLvl=1
    NoAI=1
    DrawTiles=0
    AlphaOmega=1
    BenchMark=0
    ;MPLog=1
    ;AutoGameDB=1

    [MapPerf]
    worldwrap=0
    farclip=32000
    nearclip=100
    visradius=1
    objects=1
    densityfact=75
    CamFwdSpeed=30
    CamPanSpeed=22
    CamUpSpeed=30
    CamTurnSpeed=7
    nopermsprites=0
    objlevel=3
    maxdecals=50
    ObjClip=1200
    UnitClip=1200
    TreeClip=1200
    MPobjlevel=3

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    3 years 11 months ago #27 by the reb

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  • *Where is UnitLoc located and where is it transferred to? I would believe that I can still go back into my scenario and change all to column within screwing anything up?

    *Are the ini file entries supposed to be within the Scenario Configuration Setting. I have none of these entries, do I copy, paste within (in the given order) and save?

    Thanks for joining in RebBugler. I think I'm close to figuring this out. Once I have it, I'll be able to give back to the Forum some scenario play.

    the reb

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    3 years 11 months ago #28 by Saddletank

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  • The lines of entries RebBugler gave go in the sowgb.ini file in the Work folder. The one you edited before. Don't mess with your scenario.ini file.

    I would ignore his [MapRef] section entirely as this changes graphics options etc that could not work so well with your PC.

    Yes, the formations you need are in column U of the Startlocs.csv file. I mentioned that you need to copy this column before.

    Don't know what "UnitLocs" is. I think RebBugler means the "StartLocs" file.

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    3 years 11 months ago - 3 years 11 months ago #29 by the reb

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  • I missed the Column U....Found the ini file and entries are there. thanks.

    I went back into the Sandbox file, units were in the desired location and formation, did a dump again, changed the Location Columns and then changed the Formation Column, saved and ran scenario.....Units are still in Line Formation. Checked U in scenario file and it shows Infantry Column....

    Any direction, do I need to start from the beginning? I changed nothing in the ini file.
    Last edit: 3 years 11 months ago by the reb.

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    3 years 11 months ago #30 by Saddletank

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  • the reb wrote: I missed the Column U....Found the ini file and entries are there. thanks.

    I went back into the Sandbox file, units were in the desired location and formation, did a dump again, changed the Location Columns and then changed the Formation Column, saved and ran scenario.....Units are still in Line Formation. Checked U in scenario file and it shows Infantry Column....

    Any direction, do I need to start from the beginning? I changed nothing in the ini file.

    Are unit formations critical at the scenario start? Most will being moving at once.

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