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Playing a Courier only battle

10 years 9 months ago #1 by Son of an Irish Noble

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  • I'm playing a courier only battle, meaning the only commands I am giving are by courier as army commander and allowing the corps commanders to see to their dispositions themselves. It's incredibly exciting and interesting, really a great way to play this game.

    However, I'm running into several issues with the courier system. Not bugs per se, so if this thread needs to be moved feel free, but I do have several requests for a future patch.

    Movement orders: This one bugs me in MP. The courier orders and map names don't always match up, and I'm not really sure where I should be going. I'd like to have a human playing as my commander be able to give me an objective point on top of written instructions. That or simply allowing the ability for a commander to write out messages to human players (don't really get why they can't).

    Differentiation in recipients: Currently, there's no way to find a corps commander out of the list of generals except by name, so sometimes figuring out who you want to send a message to is like finding a needle in a haystack. Just laying it out like the OOB screen, with layers in the command chain indented, would make things so much easier. Even just roman numerals in front of names or something.

    I'm sure others can think of a few adjustments that would make the courier system more intuitive or realistic. Feel free to post them. If this is a redundant thread then I apologize.

    Also I would strongly suggest at least trying play as an army commander using only couriers. It's incredibly intense, frustrating, and wonderful.

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    10 years 9 months ago #2 by NY Cavalry

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  • Playing courier is really neat. The only problem I have is that couriers should take a direct route, forgetting about roads. In most instances it is quicker for the courier to make a bee line. Those supply wagons should not go anywhere on their own. They should only move when ordered to.

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    10 years 9 months ago #3 by Tacloban

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  • Yes, I also enjoy the courier only battles, both in MP and SP. If I want to micro-manage a little, I just ride over to the location.

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    10 years 9 months ago #4 by Johnny Reb

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  • Maybe there could be a "Couriers ignore roads" option in the future? Just sayin'. Are couriers as suicidal as they were in TC2M?

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    10 years 9 months ago #5 by larrytagg

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  • These are excellent posts on couriers, one of my favorite features. Here are my comments:

    Yes, the locations on the Send Courier menus should all be corrected so that they're complete and legit.

    Yes, the ability to write (type) messages to other human players is a much-requested feature and, barring any daunting coding difficulties, should happen. Also discussed is being able to make a mark on a map and sending that to a human player.

    I agree with the opinion that Ordnance Wagons should go nowhere without a movement order from a player, unless the player is under division level. Moving ammunition is a bit of bookkeeping that division commanders and up should have to do.

    I admit don't understand the "differentiation in recipients" suggestion. You can locate your corps commanders by placing your cursor on the three-star general icons on the Map. If your Map Icons Display Level won't let you see them, then you're in the same boat as the real generals, who had to remember where their corps were disposed. Some army commanders couldn't do that (like Joe Hooker, who was a great division commander where he could see his men, but a poor army commander where he had to use a map).
    You can also navigate your chain of command numerous ways (i.e., with your arrow keys), and the recipients menu on the Send Courier screen is pretty intutitive, I think.
    But maybe I misunderstand your problem. If so, try again.

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    10 years 8 months ago #6 by Sweeney

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  • I agree strongly with the request for couriers to use the most direct path time wise taking into consideration all the movement costs entailed, and that supply wagons do,t drive around sightseeing. I witnessed some absolutely inane behavior by my couriers that in a real battle would have cost a lot in seizing the initiative.

    Also why don't my cavalry units out scouting send back couriers to tell me what they have seen?

    I have been playing and playtesting ACW board games and computer games for about 30 years now and when I play these simulations I run the engine and the AI through the gauntlet. If I find something that doesn't model reality it raises a red flag, just as the situation regarding the artillery batteries in courier games in the earlier thread that got locked. The designers have done a superb job in general as this is the very best of it's genre on the market but they still have a bit of tweaking to do if the courier only games are to be fine tuned.

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    10 years 8 months ago #7 by Son of an Irish Noble

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  • larrytagg wrote:

    I admit don't understand the "differentiation in recipients" suggestion. You can locate your corps commanders by placing your cursor on the three-star general icons on the Map. If your Map Icons Display Level won't let you see them, then you're in the same boat as the real generals, who had to remember where their corps were disposed. Some army commanders couldn't do that (like Joe Hooker, who was a great division commander where he could see his men, but a poor army commander where he had to use a map).
    You can also navigate your chain of command numerous ways (i.e., with your arrow keys), and the recipients menu on the Send Courier screen is pretty intutitive, I think.
    But maybe I misunderstand your problem. If so, try again.


    It's really more simplicity. The way it's set up now, I have to search for, say, the commander of second or third corps for about a minute in the recipient list because the layout presents everyone as equal. Even if I know who and where they are, it still takes more time than it should because I'm hunting through about a hundred names that aren't presented in a way that indicates rank or command, except in the order they are listed.

    It's just kind of a pain for an engagement like this, where seconds supposedly matter. It also seems like it'd be really easy to fix.

    Also WASD movement for follow mode would be cool.

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    10 years 8 months ago #8 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • SOAIN:
    When the orders screen pops-up, the game pauses. You can take as much time as you like. I agree, it would be nice if the leader's names were indented. I'm not sure if that is hardcoded, or can be modded. I'll ask. Although there's not too much space on that pane for any fancy indentation.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    10 years 8 months ago #9 by Son of an Irish Noble

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  • I know you can take as much time as needed, it just shouldn't need to take so long when most of the time spent is just scrolling through names. It kind of ruins immersion and it's really just an annoying issue that seems like a simple fix, not a major bug or anything.

    That's really my complaint. It's not a huge bug and it doesn't make gameplay impossible or even more difficult (except maybe in multiplayer, I haven't used it much there), it's just annoying and unnecessary.

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    10 years 6 months ago #10 by Kerflumoxed

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  • atuhalpa wrote:

    I agree strongly with the request for couriers to use the most direct path time wise taking into consideration all the movement costs entailed, and that supply wagons do,t drive around sightseeing. I witnessed some absolutely inane behavior by my couriers that in a real battle would have cost a lot in seizing the initiative.

    Also why don't my cavalry units out scouting send back couriers to tell me what they have seen?

    I have been playing and playtesting ACW board games and computer games for about 30 years now and when I play these simulations I run the engine and the AI through the gauntlet. If I find something that doesn't model reality it raises a red flag, just as the situation regarding the artillery batteries in courier games in the earlier thread that got locked. The designers have done a superb job in general as this is the very best of it's genre on the market but they still have a bit of tweaking to do if the courier only games are to be fine tuned.


    Has a revision of the current courier system, requiring couriers to use the roundabout road system, been a consideration? I know this has been addressed numerous times but have not seen a response or justification of the current system. This is of particular concern when a courier may be dispatched on the west edge of the map on the northern road and then proceed west to the eastern edge and then the southern road, only to return completely to the western edge to deliver a message. (Yes, I know this is as convoluted as the courier system. :huh: )

    Can the present system be modified to enable the courier to use a shorter route, perhaps even bypassing the road system? To do so would greatly enhance the courier system offering more enjoyment, greater usage, and, yes, more historical accuracy! PLEASE consider this modification!

    Further, as the current Alpine map is set-up, no north-south routes between the two major roads are included. Was this by design or by accident?

    Finally (as my gripe session comes to an end :blush: ), is it possible to add more place-names on the map to enable more accurate placement of troops by using the courier system. As it is now, the player is limited in moving troops by courier as there are very limited listed points on the map.

    Thanks for consideration.

    J

    J

    Jack Hanger
    Fremont, NE
    [/size]
    "Boys, if we have to stand in a straight line as stationary targets for the Yankees to shoot at, this old Texas Brigade is going to run like hell!" J. B. Poley, 4th Texas Infantry, Hood's Texas Brigade

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    10 years 6 months ago #11 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • Kerflumoxed wrote:

    Has a revision of the current courier system, requiring couriers to use the roundabout road system, been a consideration?

    Indeed it has, but without success. I have been advocating that the distance a courier will travel cross-country, (currently 300 yds), be placed in a csv file so people can adjust it to their own liking. Failing that, at least increase the distance by a factor of 2. Hopefully, if you and others squeek enough, a bit of grease will by applied in the feature patch due out later this year.

    Further, as the current Alpine map is set-up, no north-south routes between the two major roads are included. Was this by design or by accident?

    The road system is the one that exists in real life. But who says reality need interfere with having fun. Davinci has added a few trails to the alpine map that will address this issue.

    is it possible to add more place-names on the map to enable more accurate placement of troops by using the courier system

    I assume you are referring again to the alpine map. I have just completed the addition of many more locations that can be used with the courier system. It will be added to Davinci's trail mod. The mod should be released this week.

    If you are referring to the lack of names for the Gettysburg maps, I released a mod last month named, Couriers & Maps, which addresses that deficiency. I will release an update to it, to take into account game changes, once the patch becomes official.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    10 years 6 months ago #12 by con20or

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  • I love the few times I played courier only. Messed around with scenario 2 like that, and went forward to provide davis with some moral support while ordered archer to attack the farm. Saw them running away not long after!

    In relation to cavalry sending reports back from what they have seen, I agree that is essential at courier level. Any troops reporting back for that matter. As i understand it, at present if they spot a unit it appears on the map at lower difficulty levels.

    The 'report status' order doesn't work either from what i can see (but the courier may have been killed).

    I really like it though!

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    10 years 6 months ago #13 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • con20or wrote:

    The 'report status' order doesn't work either from what i can see

    That's right. Currently, it is only for MP games. In fact, only the 'Send Support' command in the 'Support' section works in SP games.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    10 years 6 months ago #14 by JMayer

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  • Norb,

    Could you put in foot soldier courriers for these lads that want direct routs to send messages. Let them chose which they want to use either an horse by roads as historically correct or by foot soldier cross country which is also historically correct. You and I know that the horse courrier would never go cross country in fear of breaking a leg or getting lost and would always use roads to be able to use speedy delivery of the message. If these folks want to use the slow rout as sending a foot soldier the 500 yards then they should be able to. I for one use roads. Just a thought to remove the problem they are having with courriers.

    JMayer

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